Elizabeth Kirk, research associate and lecturer at CUA’s Columbus School of Law. / Catholic University of America
Denver Newsroom, Oct 5, 2021 / 00:01 am (CNA).
This December, the US Supreme Court is set to hear Dobbs v. Jackson Women’s Health Organization, a case that many experts say presents the most momentous test yet of Roe v. Wade, the 1973 decision that legalized abortion nationwide. At issue is the constitutionality of Mississippi’s 2018 law banning abortion after 15 weeks of pregnancy.
As with any high-profile Supreme Court case, dozens of amicus curiae, or “friend of the court,” briefs have been filed both in support of and in opposition to the Mississippi law.
What follows is a Q&A with Elizabeth Kirk, a research associate and lecturer at the Catholic University of America and one of the signers of an amicus brief supporting Mississippi’s abortion law.
The brief lays out an argument that abortion has hurt women’s advancement; that women were making strides toward equality before Roe; and that abortion is not necessary for women’s socioeconomic success.
Kirk is a research associate and lecturer at the Catholic University of America, where she also serves as the Director of the Center for Law and the Human Person. Her scholarly interests are in the area of law and the family, and in particular the intersection between law and the Catholic intellectual tradition.
CNA: The amicus brief you signed lays out an argument that contrary to the Supreme Court’s rulings, abortion has not facilitated women’s advancement, and in reality, has hurt women. Can you walk me through the brief’s argument and evidence?
EK: There are 80 briefs in support of the State of Mississippi in the Dobbs case, each one articulating a different relevant argument. The focus of this particular amicus brief relates to the claim made in Planned Parenthood v. Casey (1992) to justify upholding Roe: “the ability of women to participate equally in the economic and social life of the Nation has been facilitated by their ability to control their reproductive lives.”
The authors rebut this claim, summarizing the empirical evidence relating to women’s historical achievements and their participation in society in the last half-century, and demonstrate convincingly that the Casey premise is false, i.e., that there is no causal link between the availability of abortion and women’s participation in society.
Furthermore, the authors point out that the data actually suggest some correlation between abortion and negative consequences for women, such as the feminization of poverty and declining levels of happiness.
Finally, the authors make the point that the argument that women need abortion to participate necessarily takes the male reproductive experience as the model for economic and social participation, and that this lopsided view has prevented meaningful accommodation of women, including their experience of pregnancy and motherhood, in the workplace and other spheres of society.
How did it come about that you signed the amicus brief in this case? Have you signed amicus briefs in similar cases in the past?
The amicus brief drafted by Teresa Collett, Helen Alvare and Erika Bachiochi was written on behalf of professional women and women scholars who hold doctorate degrees, as well as prolife feminist organizations. Any woman who fit that description and supported the brief’s argument was welcome to join. I know the drafters personally and was honored to sign.
I have testified in state legislatures on matters related to abortion, but this is the first amicus brief I have signed on the topic. I joined previous amicus briefs in Fulton v. City of Philadelphia [a significant case related to religious freedom] and Harris Funeral Homes v. EEOC, a companion case to Bostock [a 2020 decision that a federal ban on sex discrimination also protects sexual orientation and gender identity].
Many are saying the Dobbs case has a chance of overturning Roe v. Wade. Do you agree?
Certainly. This case presents this question to the Court: “Whether all pre-viability prohibitions on elective abortions are unconstitutional.” Under the governing precedents of Roe and Casey, there is a constitutionally protected right to abortion and states may not place an “undue burden” on it before viability. So, the question presented goes to the heart of the matter.
Of course, there are a number of ways the Court could handle this case short of overturning Roe and Casey. For example, it may affirm the constitutional right itself, but articulate a different test than the current “undue burden” test, or it may reconsider the role of viability in evaluating laws restricting abortion.
Many people are talking about what a “post-Roe” country could look like. What could the legal landscape of the United States look like, in terms of abortion law, if Roe is overturned?
A post-Roe legal landscape will better reflect the different views our pluralistic society holds on abortion. If Roe is overturned, all this means is that abortion regulation will again become the province of the states (as it was before 1973) and different states may be more restrictive or more permissive, as their constituencies demand through the legislative process.
We already know that some states, either legislatively or judicially, allow abortion in almost every instance. For example, New York and Illinois have very permissive abortion laws. The state supreme court of Kansas recently found a natural right to abortion in its state constitution which will likely invalidate many of its state restrictions on abortion. Overruling Roe would have little impact on the law in such states.
Some have speculated that since abortion rates are highest in places that already have such permissive abortion laws, if Roe were overturned, the national abortion rate would not be impacted dramatically. Those seeking to promote a culture of life, and a culture that supports women and embraces pregnancy and motherhood, would still have work to do.
Of course, overturning Roe would give more latitude to those states that wanted to protect human life more vigorously than is possible under the Roe/Casey regime. Pro-life advocates would need to persuade legislators and voters of the wisdom of this and to be creative about laws, policies, and initiatives to help women and families welcome children more readily.
Do you ever feel you are treated differently from others because you are a pro-life woman?
Frequently, I experience the presumption that, because I am a professional woman with an advanced degree, I must be pro-choice.
We hear a lot about the pro-life position being “anti-science” or “anti-intellectual.” Do you face this accusation often? If so, how do you respond?
I do not experience this accusation often. I think many people today, familiar with incredibly detailed ultrasound photos of their siblings or their own children, are reluctant to deny the obvious humanity of the unborn child.
Rather, I experience more frequently the arguments that (1) the pro-life position fails to promote women’s equality (refuted in our brief); (2) women’s healthcare includes abortion access (which depends on the faulty premise that fertility and pregnancy are “diseases”), or (3) the pro-life movement only demonstrates concern for unborn children (which Helen Alvaré has convincingly called the “lazy slander of the pro-life movement”.)
Have you always considered yourself to be pro-life, or was there a moment or event that convinced you of the position?
For me this has always been a very personal matter as I was the child of a “crisis pregnancy” and my husband and I were blessed to adopt our four children, three at birth through private placements by their birth families and the littlest one through foster care.
The reality of the pressures that my mother, and the birthmothers of our children, may have experienced has informed my thinking about how we might best respond generously to women in need to support them and their children.
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Sure. It’s all about acceptance, compassion, inclusion and freedom from bullying. Give me a break.
Except when the “acceptance” and “inclusion” would include Catholics who want to actually be Catholic.
Mitre Dame celebrating Pride month is disgusting. They no longer a Catholic Institution.
NOTRE DAMN UNIVERSITY ADMINISTRATORS admonish critics to consult the bible regarding homosexual activity. How about this:
Noah and Ham (Genesis 9:20–27), Sodom and Gomorrah (Genesis 19:1–11), Levitical laws condemning same-sex relationships (Leviticus 18:22, 20:13), two words in two Second Testament vice lists (1 Corinthians 6:9–10; 1 Timothy 1:10), and Paul’s letter to the Romans (Romans 1:26–27).
As for research findings, apparently not mentioned in the Notre Damn website puff piece, how about this “trinity” of findings:
FIRST, one recent study in the mix is a review of two hundred peer-reviewed studies on sexual orientation and gender identity. The conclusion: scientific evidence does NOT support the popular notion that “gender identity is an innate, fixed property of human beings that is independent of biological sex” (Mayer/McHugh, The New Atlantis: A Journal of Technology and Society, Ethics and Public Policy Center, No. 50, Fall 2016).
SECOND, more recent research into the genome itself points to some genetic markers—it does NOT find a gay gene—AND concludes that these markers do NOT account for same-sex behavior. https://news.yahoo.com/no-gay-gene-study-finds-180220669.html
From the news release:
Five of the genetic markers were “significantly” associated with same-sex behavior, the researchers said, but even these are FAR FROM being predictive of a person’s sexual preferences. “We scanned the entire human genome and found a handful – five to be precise – of locations that are clearly associated with whether a person reports in engaging in same-sex sexual behavior,” said Andrea Ganna, a biologist at the Institute of Molecular Medicine in Finland who co-led the research. He said these have “a very small effect” and, combined, explain “considerably LESS THAN 1% of the variance in the self-reported same-sex sexual behavior.”
This means that non-genetic factors – such as environment, upbringing, personality, nurture – are far more significant in influencing a person’s choice [!] of sexual partner, just as with most other personality, behavioral and physical human traits, the researchers said.
THIRD, even a relatively innocuous modern addiction—overindulgence in digital and virtual reality games—is found to produce corresponding neuro-chemical and possibly cellular changes in the brain itself, e.g., dopamine which is responsible for reward-driven behavior. A recent study completed at University College London (using MRI technology) strongly implies that a habit of lying [e.g., university website puff pieces?] tends to suppress the part of the brain (the amygdala) that responds emotionally to a “slippery slope” pattern of small and then larger lies (Garrett/Ariely/ Laxxaro, Nature Neuroscience Journal, October 24, 2016; reported by Erica Goode, New York Times, October 25, 2016).
Good observations, and if they were honest and open minded about considering how ideology reinforces habituated behavior, they would consider the significance of the fact that 98 percent of homosexuals are pro-abortion. And if they do not, they would do some soul-searching as to the ideological make-up of their beliefs that coaused them to not consider the meaning of this fact.
And one more comment about genetics. The self-evident fact that homsexuals have fewer children than non-homosexuals would provide evidence that genetic factors, if they ever existed, would diminish over time form the gene pool, not increase.
Edward, and yet this hasn’t happened. The mystery of sexual orientation continues. It must be more complex than we think.
Excellent, thorough response
“…God only created this binary.”
Desperation time in trying to find Bibical support for mental illness and lifeless sodomy.
The Holy Spirit has warned us about those who “tamper with God’s word” (2 Cor 4,2) or do “abide in the teaching of Christ” (2 John 9).
Question for Notre Dame and their alumni: What is more important, fidelity to the faith or the football team?
I am sickened and saddened to see the continual moral and theological decline of Catholic institutions, including the Church and its leadership. Wolves have entered into the sheepfold and are devouring the flock. Where are the shepherds of Christ who will defend and care for the flock? False shepherds have infiltrated the Church, leading the flock astray, abusing the flock, stealing from the flock. Demons appearing as angels of light have seduced the minds of shepherds and sheep, leading them away from the Truth that sets men free, the Truth that is the only way to the Father. They twist God’s Word to conform to the passions of the flesh and the god of this age, instead of choosing to be transformed by the pure Word of God into the image and likeness of God. With words and teaching disguised as Truth, they slowly poison the hearts and minds of the flock. Those who are poisoned remain within the flock, even leading it, destroying the Church from within, for a little leaven leavens the whole lump.
“For although they knew God, they did not honor him as God or give thanks to him, but they became futile in their thinking, and their foolish hearts were darkened. Claiming to be wise, they became fools…. Therefore God gave them up in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, to the dishonoring of their bodies among themselves, because they exchanged the truth about God for a lie and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever! Amen.” (Romans 1:18-32)
“But you must remember, beloved, the predictions of the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ. They said to you, ‘In the last time there will be scoffers, following their own ungodly passions. It is these who case divisions, worldly people, devoid of the Spirit.” (Jude 17-18)
“‘I know your works. You have the reputation of being alive, but you are dead. Wake up, and strengthen what remains and is about to die, for I have not found your works complete in the sight of my God. Remember, then, what you received and heard. keep it, and repent. If you will not wake up, I will come like a thief, and you will not know at what hour I will come against you.'” (Jesus Christ to the Church in Sardis, Revelation 3:1-6).
“Where are the shepherds of Christ who will defend and care for the flock?” We have one here in the Diocese of Springfield in Illinois.
Equality for the LGBTQ group? Why doesn’t the LGBTQ group start with an in-depth study of those who are like themselves? With such tendencies who feel trapped and don’t want that condition. And then those who love their situation which is condemned by the Creator. I remember a guy who I had often seen at Mass who committed suicide because he had these tendencies and didn’t want them. I know of a young boy at this time who has rejected God and says he plans to commit suicide because he doesn’t want to be gay. I know of two females who find themselves in this situation and have become totally reclusive being filled with anger and hate. I have heard horror stories of such people who think suicide is the only way out. With equality, the LGBTQ group should make a sturdy study on this and release it to the public, what do they have to fear, they claim it’s a great life. Maybe Notre Dame University can launch this study. The bottom line, when it comes to LGBTQ there are 2 types of people. Those who don’t want these attractions and feelings and then there are those who have them and in their vileness and wickedness are proud of it. May the Sacred Heart of Jesus have mercy on these poor souls.
Andrew Angelo, you are right, and the suicide rate is much higher among these people. It must be incredibly disheartening and confusing to know inside that you are conflicted with an inner struggle, but then all around you in the world people are telling you it’s a choice, or that it’s okay, and there’s nothing wrong with you. It’s a mental illness, and until the medical field classifies it as such (like they used to), there will be more unresolved depression and suicides. These people aren’t getting the necessary tools and help to deal with their disorder. Imagine knowing you have a sore toothache, but your dentist keeps telling you it doesn’t hurt, or the hurt is good, and that you chose it! Talk about gaslighting…
Andrew, thanks for witnessing the struggle of gay Christians. You do so much for gay people by sharing your persinal experiences. I can say that I thought I was royally f*ucked when I found that I was gay. I thought my life was over.
Notre Dame denigrated itself the day they awarded an honorary degree to pro-abortion Barack Obama. They continue to denigrate themselves by admitting that the Bible in the Book of Genesis claims that “God began by creating human beings of male and female sex,” then adding that, “there is nothing that indicates in Scripture that God only created this binary.” Wrong. The creation account declares binary (male and female) as the natural law without explaining it further, because natural law is what works. If Notre Dame desires to shame its name by advocating for the most deadly sin of Pride, they should include the explanation of Adam and Eve desiring to be God, which is the lack of humility in recognizing who they were made to be and wanting to be more. The alphabet people are imitating Adam and Eve in their desire to take God’s place by declaring His creation inadequate or incomplete. They attempt to make themselves above God by obliterating His natural law to “be fruitful and multiply.” That, people, defines binary.
To the point—and Notre Dame wears the crown of all the Catholic universities that
support and promote what is called “sexual reassignment” together with all the trimmings. Other institutions of higher learning(indoctrination) are more covert.
Great comment!
Why are Catholic parents still sending their kids here?
Sodom and Gomorrah Now. A take on Coppola’s Apocalypse Now. Our once livable culture is becoming fast dangerous. Obscenity celebrated in virtually all commercials, social gatherings. Churchgoing reduced to live streaming. If at all. Once proudly Catholic, Notre Dame home of beloved convert Norwegian born Knute Rockne perhaps best football coach ever. Now a feminized charade of what once was. Transformation has been so rapid and plenary most seem dazed [those still with normal sensitivities] angry or join the self indulgent orgy many angry as well. Anger is commonplace a form of discontent with it all not finding Nirvana in cancel culture. In olden times back when prophets prophesied about God angels appeared here and there on our Earth. During Sodom and Gomorrah Now, an alert must be given. Angels enter at your own risk.
Absolutely sickening to see the way ND has capitulated to the zeitgeist and abdicated its role as America’s foremost Catholic university (though the problem goes back even further to the Land O’ Lakes Statement) in the last 20 years.
When I was a student in the mid ’90s, ND refused to grant the “Gays and Lesbians of ND/SMC” group (The T and Q and + blah blah, hadn’t been added yet!) any official status (which would have allowed them to receive extracurricular activity funds, usage of certain buildings, etc.) Now the University itself openly celebrates homosexuality and “trans,” and endorses renaming a month after one of the 7 deadly sins.
Will never give another dime to ND.
P.S. Will people please stop saying “Notre Dame University”? It’s University of Notre Dame. Thanks.
Oh people. Fr. Jenkins didn’t write the article a marketing director named Cidni Sanders wrote the story. She is neither a theologian, professor, nor adminstrator, I don’t think she is even Catholic. But she is the nicest person ever and she has a job to do and it is to write about diversity and inclusivity. This year she also authored articles about North Korean immigrants, refugees from Africa…and God Forbid…Muslims at UND. If you are really concerned go and visit and talk to one of the many Holy Cross priests on the University of Notre Dame campus or do like Raymond Arroyo and I did and send your kid there. My son was the only one of his High School classmates with a big smile on his face at the end of his academic year because they were they only university to trust in God and open up, (Even though my wife and I were very concerned to hear he charged the field after the Clemson game). I don’t like it either but a top notch university should be about dialogue and dialectic about everything in the seen and unseen world.
Franciscan University opened up fully last fall. And no vaccinations required. ND disclaims liability for its decision because the student can choose to reject vaccination and go somewhere else (and give up their coveted spot at ND)
My son got a full scholarship to UND. We as a family are struggling to make ends meet in order to send our 2 other sons to Catholic High School, if the Lord has blessed us with not having to pay for a college education for my oldest son I think that is a good thing – even if it has its problems.
Oh, it was written by some non-Catholic PR flack – well, that’s ok then! Sorry, the University is responsible for what it’s PR people write in its name.
And the only outrage you can muster about anything is the idea that your son may have gone onto the field during the Clemson game!? Oh my God, what a crime! Hope you never saw the 1993 FSU game! We’d have given you a heart attack – even tore down the goalposts!
Cidni Sanders…”the nicest person ever.” But, it all happens on Jenkins’ watch.
The name of the game is stealth and compartmentalization. In the Navy the slogan is that “you can delegate responsibility, but you can’t delegate accountability.” The Administration has failed, and is accountable.
There are many of us whose children are attending UND who are praying a new dawn for UND with the resignation of VP of Student Affairs Ms. Harding and installation of Fr. Gerard Olinger. I trust in the Holy Spirit.
Notre Dame is apostate, and serves as the collegial flagship of the 50-year-long project that is the now the “McCarrick Establishment.”
Notre Dame owes its status as “apostate-power-house” to its progenitor frauds McCarrick and Hesburg, co-creators and co-signers of the 1967 “Land-of-Lakes Statement,” by which the co-signing apostates and apostate-sex-abusers, including McCarrck and Hesburg, declared their universities’ “freedom in the face of authority of whatever kind….”
Read it here:
http://sycamoretrust.org/wp-content/uploads/Land-OLakes-Statement.pdf
And notice on the last 2 pages the signatory apostate frauds, including the “Right Rev. Theodore E. McCarrick, President, Catholic University of Puerto Rico.”
So there you have it, the entire superstructure of the contemporay US Church establishment is founded by the sociopath sex abusing fraud McCarrick, and his fellow fruad apostates.
The Good Shepherd made this declaration: “I spew them out of my mouth.”
True that, Chris!
It is an error to cite the Bible. The opposition does not accept it as a viable source, indeed homosexual activists want to declare it hate literature. The argument must be based on nature where the primary law is perpetuation of the species. Homosexuality does not fit into nature’s plan, and must be regarded as an aberration. This separates the person from the act — a process disapproved by the activists.
So when are devout Catholic families going to stop fawning over the school? The appeal of reputation, beautiful campus, high competitiveness, and football is too great. Raymond Arroyo sent his child(ren) there. My own youngest daughter thinks it’s THE school to attend.
Franciscan University, as well as others, needs the support of Catholic families. My oldest son attends Franciscan and said in his freshman year, “everyone should come here.”