Due to its divisiveness, it can be tempting to avoid the topic of politics altogether within the Church and instead focus on the seemingly less controversial issues of faith and spirituality.
To avoid politics, however, would not be Christian. This is not because the Kingdom of God seeks to set itself up as a political regime, as this would vastly diminish its eternal power. Rather, Christians
cannot avoid politics because faith cannot be restrained within any confines, political or otherwise. The Kingdom of God has power to transform every aspect of human life if we allow it to do so.
Throughout the history of the Church, Christians have engaged with politics in vastly different ways. From existing as a persecuted minority to wearing the purple of Caesars, picking up the scraps of a fallen empire, presiding over a richly Christian culture, entering into a bitter civil war, becoming an object of persecution once again, and finally groping to navigate an overwhelmingly secular world — in all of these stages, certain common principles emerge. Although the Kingdom of God is not of this earth, it does exist on this earth in the lives of Christians, who, as pilgrims journeying through the world, still seek to foster the good of all.
Even in its early days, the Church drew converts from Caesar’s household, government officials and the army. Rather than removing these converts from their roles in society, they were given moral and spiritual guidance to fulfill their duties in a higher way, with the aid of God’s grace. The work of the laity in the world itself becomes an expression of the Church’s saving mission, witnessing to the power of God’s Kingdom to make all things new.
The Church has never sought to void the distinct role of the political realm, even though God raised up saints to correct those who would blur the distinction between the two.
St. Augustine provided the image of two spiritual cities that overlap in the world, the City of God, formed of the union of all those who love God above self, and the City of Man, those who love themselves and the world more than God. The beauty and messiness of the relation between these cities comes out beautifully in Andrew Willard Jones’s new book, The Two Cities: A History of Christian Politics (Emmaus, 2021).
The book does more than simply focus on politics, as it presents the whole tapestry of Catholic thought and culture that is necessary to understand how the Church engages the world. Jones lays out a central thesis discerned by the early Church: “Christianity is about the salvation of mankind, and mankind is essentially social. The redemption of men through the Incarnation was the redemption of mankind as a political being” (75).
The Middle Ages put this view to its strongest test, when political rulers saw themselves as guardians of the Church and spiritual leaders sought to shape the whole of society through their moral authority. Jones points out that during the Gregorian reform in particular, popes sought to turn “all of society into one ideal liturgical act of worship, into one properly ordered monastery” (101). Even if the Church did not seek to replace the State, it did claim ultimate authority over on the spiritual plain, seeking to direct politics toward the glory of God.
This spiritualized ideal of politics was not to last. With the rise of the modern world, “increasingly, people’s loyalty was not to Christendom but to their particular kingdom” (132). Within the confines of a stronger nationalism, the order of allegiance often was reversed, with religion seen as a tool for political subservience: “These confessional states were increasingly interested in religious observance as a form of submission to the State and not the actual spiritual well-being of the believer” (162). This in turn led to a growing secularism, as people found religion to be more and more bound up with the political establishment. And it was almost inevitable that from this position, people would claim that “the temporal power was now, somehow, superior to the spiritual power,” a situation that, for the Church, “was not tenable” (187).
And yet, the supremacy of the political over the spiritual would only increase, especially through violent revolution. New secular regimes, with their accompanying ideologies, would threaten the very existence of Christians in the modern world, with liberalism trivializing faith’s public role and Communism seeking to stamp out the Church entirely. Thus, Christians face a new apostolic era, enduring a new persecution from the “gods of burgeoning post-modernity,” not “interested in sharing space with the Lord God,” while attempting a new evangelization of the modern world (339).
This brief history, aided by Andrew Willard Jones’s masterful narrative, reveals the way in which the Church shapes politics. By seeking the salvation of souls, the Body of Christ extends itself into the world as leaven to transform all things from within. Christians certainly have been tempted to make their home in the here and now, seeking material goods over spiritual ones, even in the Church.
However, it is important to bear in mind that the proper position of the Christian is that of the pilgrim, leaving his mark upon the world, improving it when possible and enduring it when not, all the while pointing others along the path towards the kingdom that will last forever.
• Related at CWR: “The Two Cities is a remarkable, comprehensive history of the world” (June 7, 2022) by Conor Dugan
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Concerning the distinctive role of the laity in the world (rather than the role of the Church, per se), Cardinal Muller makes this beautiful and intriguing passing remark:
“Any given life is full of experiences like the birth of a child, the feeling of unconditional generosity that can be found in the bosom of the family, love between a man and a woman, THE SATISFACTION OF A JOB WELL DONE [caps added], and so many other experiences, which contain within them a seed of eternity, sown by God” (The Muller Report, Ignatius, 2017, p. 43).
“A [secular] job well done [as a] seed of eternity”! Wonderful: Jean-Pierre de Caussade’s “sacrament of the present moment.”
Common ground is appreciated especially when it honours God, not to mention democratic principles!
While somewhat off topic, we ask ourselves; what is the state of our eternal soul? It is a prayerful, ongoing matter for one and all!
Ezekiel 18:4 Behold, all souls are mine; the soul of the father as well as the soul of the son is mine: the soul who sins shall die.
Genesis 2:7 Then the Lord God formed the man of dust from the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living creature.
Matthew 22:37 And he said to him, “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.
Matthew 10:28 And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather fear him who can destroy both soul and body in hell.
3 John 1:2 Beloved, I pray that all may go well with you and that you may be in good health, as it goes well with your soul.
Matthew 16:26 For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world and forfeits his soul? Or what shall a man give in return for his soul?
In the peace that is Jesus Christ.
“The Middle Ages put this view to its strongest test, when political rulers saw themselves as guardians of the Church and spiritual leaders sought to shape the whole of society through their moral authority. ”
Political rulers are supposed to be guardians of the Church. The Catholic Church is unique and it is obligatory that the state recognize Her for what She is and support Her – in matters not directly financial.
“This spiritualized ideal of politics was not to last.”
There were and are reasons for this. It was the Protestant Revolution which was the beginning. Hindsight is 20/20, but given that it has been known at least since the publication of “Liberalism is a Sin” that it was Protestantism which was the initial mechanism of destruction and it is “religious” liberalism which is the cause.
In time liberalism has lead to the denial of moral truth. I even had an experience of a deputy clerk of court put the word “justice” in quotes as she was talking to me. The denial of (objective) moral truth is perhaps the “new liberalism.”
Just because people disagree with regards to morality doesn’t mean that morality can’t be determined and at least one position can be condemned as immoral in a debate. Although morality – in action – involves the practical reason, the principles are theoretical and capable of reasonable determination. In fact, some of the principles are inchoately found in constitutions in the United States.
I have read a footnote that claimed that a bishop was confident at some point during the early(?) 1950s that Catholics could stop any legislation that indicated an acceptance of birth control.
Apparently, this position changed with the 1954 revision of the tax code (i.e. 501c(3)). For a detailed understanding of this (Although, I haven’t read it – yet.) see Philip Hamburger’s “Liberal Suppression: Section 501(c)(3) and the Taxation of Speech.”
If we put two and two together, does it add up to a unique alpha-numeric equating Luther? Just the mention conducts a frenzy of protest and revolt. Some four hundred years latter Catholics appear unwilling to forgive or forget!
Widespread disrepute is attached to his name, yet, to ask one specifically for a single reference point, there is silence. Perhaps you are the one to articulate? I won’t be holding my breath though.
1 Peter 2:19 For this is a gracious thing, when, mindful of God, one endures sorrows while suffering unjustly.
James 1:2-4 Count it all joy, my brothers, when you meet trials of various kinds, for you know that the testing of your faith produces steadfastness. And let steadfastness have its full effect, that you may be perfect and complete, lacking in nothing.
“Some four hundred years latter Catholics appear unwilling to forgive or forget!”
Well, it was kind of a big deal. Completely changed the course of the Western world and all that. Doesn’t help that Luther was an angry, raging kind of guy, who was maddeningly inconsistent, voraciously polemical, and prone to condemning any and everyone who didn’t get on board with his magisterial mood swings.
But, for me, one of the biggest problems with Luther was his full-blown nominalism, which really warped his understanding of, well, everything: God, salvation, authority, and much more. I touch on some of this in my essay “What Is In a Name?”
For a much more detailed treatment of Luther that provides a wealth of historical, cultural, and theological context, I recommend Brad Gregory’s book Rebel in the Ranks: Martin Luther, the Reformation, and the Conflicts That Continue to Shape Our World. His much longer and more academic book The Unintended Reformation: How a Religious Revolution Secularized Society is a very deep dive into Luther and Reformation-era history.
Dear Carl:
After an earnest day in the office, who emerges but bothersome Brian nourishing a brouhaha?
“Luther was an angry, raging kind of guy, who was maddeningly inconsistent, voraciously polemical, and prone to condemning any and everyone who didn’t get on board with his magisterial mood swings.”
Such accolades! A lifetime of service and never did right! Yet, we should look at the other side of the coin to be fair minded.
Perhaps Luther viewed the church as a beautiful car that needed an overhaul and some corrections, forgive the metaphor and time frame. He wanted the betterment of the church by returning her to foundational and fundamental principles that made her a bastion of truth and hope.
This would have been a radical, yet needed rectification for the church at that time. It posed problems that the church was not prepared to deal with. The consequence was the excommunication, the proclamation of the reformation and the message God had spoken to His creation.
While there is a fixation on the disunion, it is my view that Holy scripture will make the argument for or against the outcome.
You preface your articles with scripture references which adds another dimension to your standpoint. When God buttresses the topic, we are blessed.
Isaiah 1:1-The vision of Isaiah the son of Amoz, which he saw concerning Judah and Jerusalem in the days of Uzziah, Jotham, Ahaz, and Hezekiah, kings of Judah. Hear, O heavens, and give ear, O earth; for the Lord has spoken: “Children have I reared and brought up, but they have rebelled against me. The ox knows its owner, and the donkey its master’s crib, but Israel does not know, my people do not understand.” Ah, sinful nation, a people laden with iniquity, offspring of evildoers, children who deal corruptly! They have forsaken the Lord, they have despised the Holy One of Israel, they are utterly estranged. Why will you still be struck down? Why will you continue to rebel? The whole head is sick, and the whole heart faint. …
1 John 5:7 For there are three that testify:
2 Corinthians 13:5 Examine yourselves, to see whether you are in the faith. Test yourselves. Or do you not realize this about yourselves, that Jesus Christ is in you?—unless indeed you fail to meet the test!
Romans 5:1 Therefore, since we have been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ.
Romans 1:1-32 Paul, a servant of Christ Jesus, called to be an apostle, set apart for the gospel of God, which he promised beforehand through his prophets in the holy Scriptures, concerning his Son, who was descended from David according to the flesh and was declared to be the Son of God in power according to the Spirit of holiness by his resurrection from the dead, Jesus Christ our Lord, through whom we have received grace and apostleship to bring about the obedience of faith for the sake of his name among all the nations, …
Yours in Christ,
Brian
P.S. Thank you for the references provided. You’re my librarian of late!
May all Catholics be like you or become you Brian.
Carl, we might add that the Spirit of that “Nominalism” took 400 years to uproot Catholicism.
Jesus Christ, the Human Logos, spoke 4 languages. He read Old Hebrew, spoke modern Araméen, Latin, and Greek. It was so evident, it was never stated. Let me explain.
Hebrew was already a “dead” language when Jesus read and interpreted the Words God Spoke in Araméen. Hebrew, chosen by God for His Covenant, was Sacred and reserved for Liturgy. Jesus respected that!
The languages used by the Human Logos appeared above his head during the crucifixion. The King of the Jews in Araméen, Latin, and Greek. At Pentecost, three Gospels – one in each language – enabled the hearers to experience three gospels memorized by heart in their native language… Araméen, Greek, Latin – although they would have enjoyed the perspectives contained in their second and maybe fourth tongue? Multilingualism is still the Norm today worldwide.
This was so evident, it was not stated. Three Sacred Languages were used for Catholic Liturgy from Pentecost Onwards, the three Sacred Languages of the Trinitarian issued Covenant Himself.
The Nominalism of Luther was not Sacred Tradition. And during His lifetime, Jesus respected the Language of the first Covenant whilst introducing the Sacred Trinity of languages of the New Covenant Liturgy.
Catholicism did not abolish this sacred tradition from God. “The Council” did not. Freemasonic Post-Conciliarism did. And only this week Bergoglio stated “Traditionalism is not Catholicism.” We should all reply, “Post-Conciliarism is not Catholicism”, “Bergoglioism is not Catholicism” and “the Blessed Trinity is Catholicism which you silently rejected at Abdu Dhabi along with the Incarnation of the Triptic Logos.”
Dear Mike:
Welcome aboard, a pleasure to see your name and to have your perspective. Before fully responding to you, it would be good to reread your comments. Where we are aligned, we praise God, where we might differ, we honour God as we try to comprehend the path He has laid out for us.
God bless you,
Brian
I wish I had added: “Sacred Traditionalism is Catholicism” and He who persecutes Traditional Latin Mass Catholicism from Underground China to Downtown Chicago, Persecutes the Triptic Logos Himself.
Will readers make the link between Bergoglio, Nominalism, Luthers Enthronement in the Vatican and Stamp with his systematic denial of Sacred Tradition at Abdu Dhabi?
If I failed, Carl, drop me a line. The duty of the Chorus that observes and perceives during an unfolding Greek Tragedy is to Speak. I seek to do my duty for Christ, the King of Living Sacred Tradition.
Carl, I think it’s also worth noting that Luther was a disaster in even strictly secular terms.
By urging the ruthless suppression of the Münzer Rebellion, through which the peasants were attempting to improve their lot and curb abuses by the nobility, Luther single-handedly nipped the nascent move toward German democracy in the bud.
This would rob German society of a much-needed move toward liberalization that may have forestalled the disastrous German appetite for totalitarianism that so roiled the world hundreds of years later.
In addition, Luther’s habit of holding himself beyond accountability, issuing capricious mandates, and urging society to act on his own his virulent antisemitism provided a pernicious template for the German peoples to revere that anticipated Hitler’s stance four hundred years later.
Luther was, in effect, a homunculus Hitler. And his role in laying the groundwork for Nazism among the German peoples, while unquantifiable, is nonetheless undeniable.
Actually, Luther’s influence is “quantifiable…”
The weird concoction of Lutheran individualism combined with residual Catholic absolutism is the formula that has led to not only Nazism, but also the collectivist Communism and Socialism.
Such is the researched thesis of scholar Eric von Kuehnelt-Leddihn in his “Liberty OR Equality” (1952). The quantification is documented in two detailed political district maps for 1934 and 1932. The hundreds of districts (centered in Bavaria) predominantly still Catholic (85 to 100%, 70 to 85%, 50 to 70%), contrast with those districts voting Nazi in 1932 (over 50%. 40 to 50%, 37.4 to 40%).
The author explains that emergent parliamentary democracy went off the rails in Germany because Germany was more of a hybrid than simply parliamentary as were the nations of a more Evangelical slant: “It is the combination of the degenerative process of Protestantism with Catholic absolutism and extremism which became such a dangerous explosive mixture.” Idolized leaders rose to the top like pond scum, and then were acclaimed by the Protestant masses beneath.
This historic and anomalous concoction now has entered the Church itself, where the now corrupted hierarchy shares presumably “binding” spiritual authority with the ZdK (Central Committee of so-called German Catholics) and, when challenged, whines that this not-so-new virus is destined to revolutionize the universal and perennial Catholic Church.
A frightful specter, now that neighboring and synodal sycophants Hollerich and and Gretch have risen to mouth the same pond slogans.
Dear Carl:
I was not allowed to reply to your most recent note by going to the front door, so I will avail myself of the servants entrance.
Hyperbole! Here Jesus uses it to demonstrate our utter helplessness to come into His kingdom without His saving grace. Can you point to one of my insufficient works that would gain me admission? No, neither can I.
Matthew 5:29-30 If your right eye causes you to sin, tear it out and throw it away. For it is better that you lose one of your members than that your whole body be thrown into hell. And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. For it is better that you lose one of your members than that your whole body go into hell.
The disenchantment with Luther by your readers, follows a common thread, ad hominem, with a generous helping of ignominy added to the mix. Grudges are not for Christians, enlightenment is our clarion call.
Matthew 6:33 But seek first the kingdom of God and his righteousness, and all these things will be added to you.
Matthew 16:19 I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.”
In Matthew 16:19, a cautionary note is to be considered. The binding and loosing has to be according to the immutable word of God. Alas there has been confusion in the mind of too many and perhaps this has been a stumbling block that has injured the hapless and ill informed. Yes, there is controversy here and examining scripture is the key to unlocking veracity. If someone wishes to scrutinize this, I request their argument be formulated on scripture, because that is where we find Matthew 16:19.
To my care worn ink stained wretch; sending you God’s speed and reminding you that He is using you in a mighty way.
Brian
“Can you point to one of my insufficient works that would gain me admission? No, neither can I.”
Not admission, but certainly salvation. Otherwise, Paul is spouting nonsense: “Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, so now, not only as in my presence but much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling; for God is at work in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure.” (Phil 2:12-13)
As was James: “What does it profit, my brethren, if a man says he has faith but has not works? Can his faith save him? … So faith by itself, if it has no works, is dead.” (Jas 2:15, 17).
And that is key, because Luther’s view of grace was seriously deficient; he (and Calvin and Co.) viewed it as external favor, not as the actual divine life of God gifted through baptism and the Holy Spirit. So, no, we can gain admission by our works, but we grow as children of God and partakers of the divine nature by doing good works animated by grace. To quote from an unpublished paper I wrote many years ago for a Master’s class:
Dear Carl:
The message was conveyed to you and once again I am in honour of one of your replies. Let’s go to work:
“Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, so now, not only as in my presence but much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling; for God is at work in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure.” (
If we had to work out our own salvation, how could it be not in fear and trembling? We would be utterly helpless. Yet God is at work within us to will and to do. Is this not joyful for the sinner? How could our works surpass that of Jesus Christ? He created us, loves us and redeemed us through His shed blood.
If we are saved by works, what was the purpose of Jesus’s death? Grace is an unmerited gift by God. Some don’t like that idea, they far prefer to stand on self-righteousness, yet won’t they be shocked!
Isaiah 64:6 We have all become like one who is unclean, and all our righteous deeds are like a polluted garment. We all fade like a leaf, and our iniquities, like the wind, take us away.
2 Corinthians 5:21 For our sake he made him to be sin who knew no sin, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.
Titus 3:5 He saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit,
Philippians 3:9 And be found in him, not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which comes through faith in Christ, the righteousness from God that depends on faith—
Romans 10:3 For, being ignorant of the righteousness of God, and seeking to establish their own, they did not submit to God’s righteousness.
Not to make this overly long, we can look at the important passage in James as you choose. Luther made a serious error in judgement on the verse you quote. He had his shortcomings as we all do.
God bless you,
Brian
“If we had to work out our own salvation, how could it be not in fear and trembling? We would be utterly helpless.”
That verse, of course, is written to Christians (Phil. 2:12), “my beloved,” who have God working in them. The point is that once we are received into the Church, the household of God, and made children of God through faith and baptism, we must grow in the divine life through diligence, reverence, and proper fear (that is, awe and humility) of God.
Only the Catholic and Orthodox understanding of grace, mercy, and works makes sense of all the verses. Luther’s view would mean that our good works in Christ are worthless; that is an insult to God and a dismissal of the virtue and holiness we are called to embrace and grow in. Put simply, we have to distinguish–as the Bible does–between good works performed by our own power apart from God and good works performed in Christ by the power of the Holy Spirit. That is why Paul, for example, can write of both works in this way:
We are not made children of God by our good works, but we grow and mature as children of God through good works in Christ, by the power of the Holy Spirit. Which is why 1 and 2 John repeat this theme:
Finally, one reason that James writes, “You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone” (Jas 2:24) is that justification is not a single event (though it has a definite beginning), but a growth in grace and holiness. I suggest reading this section of the Catechism to understand better the Catholic understanding of grace, justification, and sanctification.
Dear Carl:
Thank you for your response. Your professors would be pleased in some respects. 🙂
It is a benefit to discuss matters with you as you are a trained theologian and writer. I am neither. Nor a preacher, pastor, deacon, only a student of scripture and lover of the Lord. Your time is appreciated, it gives others an advantage as well.
Philippians 2:12-13 Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, so now, not only as in my presence but much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling, for it is God who works in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure.
Here, we are asked to “work out” not work for our salvation. It is easy to misconstrue this, yet the following verses lean to the former rather than the latter.
2 Corinthians 3:5 Not that we are sufficient in ourselves to claim anything as coming from us, but our sufficiency is from God,
2 Timothy 1:9 who saved us and called us to a holy calling, not because of our works but because of his own purpose and grace, which he gave us in Christ Jesus before the ages began,
Romans 9:16 So then it depends not on human will or exertion, but on God, who has mercy.
James 1:16-18 Do not be deceived, my beloved brothers. Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of lights with whom there is no variation or shadow due to change. Of his own will he brought us forth by the word of truth, that we should be a kind of first fruits of his creatures.
Hebrews 13:21 equip you with everything good that you may do his will, working in us that which is pleasing in his sight, through Jesus Christ, to whom be glory forever and ever. Amen.
And now to James
James 2 22-24 You see that faith was active along with his works, and faith was completed by his works; 23 and the Scripture was fulfilled that says, “Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness”—and he was called a friend of God. You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone.
The real question is who’s works are they? Works ordained by God are works we can do. It is the outworking of our faith that assures us that our faith is not vain. Our works do not save us, rather they assure us that the Holy Spirit is at work within us to will and to do. We take no credit for the works, only rejoice that God increases our certitude through His Holy Spirit.
Philippians 2:13 for it is God who works in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure.
Colossians 1:10 so as to walk in a manner worthy of the Lord, fully pleasing to him, bearing fruit in every good work and increasing in the knowledge of God.
Hebrews 13:21 equip you with everything good that you may do his will, working in us that which is pleasing in his sight, through Jesus Christ, to whom be glory forever and ever. Amen.
2 Corinthians 5:17 Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away; behold, the new has come.
God bless you,
Brian
Dear Brian,
Let’s try this…if still needed, find a copy of the “Joint Declaration on the Doctrine of Justification,” co-signed (!) by the Lutheran World Federation and the Roman Catholic Church (1999).
And then NOTICE the brief Preface which reads, in part, “The solemn confirmation of this Joint Declaration on 31 October 1999 in Augsburg, by means of the Official Common Statement with its ANNEX [!], represents an ecumenical event of historical significance.”
And NOTE that the integral ANNEX provides clarity on the remaining distinction between salvation by grace alone (elsewhere verbalized, in words attributed to Luther, as “dung covered with snow”), versus the Catholic doctrine that fallen man is not totally depraved, but rather suffers only from concupiscence—the tendency toward sin.
The five-page ANNEX in part: “The concept of ‘concupiscence’ is used in different senses on the Catholic and Lutheran sides. In the Lutheran Confessional writings ‘concupiscence’ is understood as the self-seeking desire of the human being, which in light of the law, spiritually understood, is regarded as sin. In the Catholic understanding concupiscence is an inclination, remaining in human beings even after baptism, which comes from sin and presses toward sin [….]”
Therefore, and with James, the (agreed?) necessity and efficacy of works done in cooperating with grace. Or, please help CWR readers to understand why the precisely clarifying ANNEX is still excluded the now on-line Lutheran version of the jointly-signed Declaration.
Dear Carl:
Thank you for the Catechism reference. It is beautifully written, insightful and inspiring. In the section you pointed out, it is an ode to God and a blessing to our soul.
Thank you too for the link to an earlier article of yours. On e of the lingering effects of covid is continuing weariness and decreased concentration. I did not give its due. Yours masters paper suggested is worth and another read as well.
Brian
How many Catholics in his time, and to the present, in grasping his doctrinal denial and repudiation of Tradition especially of the Ordinary Magisterium, endangered their own souls in finding a ‘common ground’ with a myriad growth of denominational Protestantism in ‘just getting along’?
Does the passage of time change the truth?
Does the German Synod and its proposed doctrinal ‘corrections’ sit well with you?
Much is made of Church Tradition and the teaching of such. Does it affirm Apostolic Tradition, further does it bow the knee to Holy Scripture. The Catechism declares scripture as the true guide for the church.
Yes tradition is a common motto, Where is it? Bring it on by and allow it to affirm itself!
God’s truth is eternal. If we follow His word we will not be adrift unless we push away from His tenets. The German Synod is out of touch with God’s word, but friends to the world.
Brian, as I understand it: the human Logos Jesus Christ is the Source of Sacred Tradition and Sacred Scripture and IS Mainfest therein.
He has been considered present during Sacred Liturgy – Latin, Greek, Araméen – for 2000 years. After resurrection, He is recognised during the liturgical breaking of bread. That is Sacred Tradition.
The Logos is Manifest in the Greek, Latin, Araméen Sacred Texts of the New Testament.
When we engage with Scripture, we engage with Logos who is invited and invites us to Communion of Minds and Hearts.
The Human Logos Jesus Christ is thus the Source and Living Presence of Sacred Tradition and Sacred Tradition as treasured and handed down through the ages. As the Christ, the Messiah promised in the line of King David, he is the living fulfillment of God’s Revelation.
Where is the Tradition to be found Brian? Where it has always been!
Brian, as I understand it from Catechism: the human Logos Jesus Christ is the Source of Sacred Tradition and Sacred Scripture and IS Mainfest therein.
Logos is present during Sacred Liturgy – Latin, Greek, Araméen – for 2000 years. After resurrection, He is recognised during the liturgical breaking of bread. That is Sacred Tradition.
The Logos is Manifest in the Greek, Latin, Araméen Sacred Texts of the New Testament.
When we engage with Scripture, we engage with Logos who is invited and invites us to Communion of Minds and Hearts.
The Human Logos Jesus Christ is thus the Source and Manifest Presence we call Sacred Tradition and Sacred Scripture as treasured and handed down through the ages. As the Christ, the Messiah promised in the line of King David, Jesus Christ Logos Incarnate is the eternal fulfillment of God’s Tradition, His ultimate Covenant.
Where is the Tradition to be found Brian? Where it has always been! The Holy Sacrifice of the Mass has been brought on in Latin, Araméen, and Greek for 20 centuries !!
You are puposely conflating the tradition of men with the Tradition of the Church.
You really don’t understand the difference or just trying to score a miserable debating point by ignoring the Holy Spirit in its protection of the Deposit of Faith which includes the Tradition of the Church….”what is bound on Earth”.
In your replies here you’re not answering objections but reconstituting them as softballs to your liking.
Luther did incalculable harm to the Faith. If he would have continued at corruption in practices and customs and not attack doctrine which is under the authority of the Holy Spirit, we would know a different Luther and his progeny.
None of your freshman, Protestant apologetics can save what Luther has wrought.
Brother Brian, why dawdle with “two plus two?”
For example, on the matter of being saved by faith alone and without works or any kind of scruples, how about this from Luther in his more rabid mood: ““If men only believe enough in Christ they can commit adultery and murder a thousand times a day without periling their salvation” (Martin Luther). How about that for a “reference point”!
And given the “four hundred years” (sic, actually five hundred) of secularizing fermentation, the Lutheran mentality might even end up blessing homosexual stuff, and overturning the Catechism on all sexual morality. Just as upstart Luther endorsed the bigamy of Henry XVIII and the German elector Rudolf of Hesse.
But while Luther was unhinged, he also was only a small fish, compared to today. We now have a theological Bubonic Plague as from two centuries before Luther (media darlings Martin, Marx, Batzing, Hollerich, Grech and their legion of camp followers).
What civilization (!) needs now is no longer corrective theological and moral positions on Vatican letterhead, but a rodent exterminator.
Dear Peter;
Let us deal with the essence of your position. That is of the utmost importance and most worthy of my feeble attempts to honour God and be of some aid to others.
““If men only believe enough in Christ they can commit adultery and murder a thousand times a day without periling their salvation” (Martin Luther). How about that for a “reference point”!
Quite a statement, however does it have any validity? Was this sophomoric or was it hyperbole?
First and foremost, God not only saves us He changes us, conforming us into His image. When we accept Christ’s offer of salvation (through His virgin birth, shed blood and resurrection) it is a matter of faith. Yet, someone will ask “is my faith misplaced”?
Hebrews 12:2 Looking to Jesus, the author and perfecter of our faith, who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is seated at the right hand of the throne of God.
Micah 7:7 But as for me, I will look to the Lord; I will wait for the God of my salvation; my God will hear me.
1 Peter 3:18 For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit,
1 Peter 2:23-24 When he was reviled, he did not revile in return; when he suffered, he did not threaten, but continued entrusting himself to him who judges justly. He himself bore our sins in his body on the tree, that we might die to sin and live to righteousness. By his wounds you have been healed.
Because Christ is in us we are altered! Luther’s overstatement allows us to realize that we will not pursue such evil matters. Why? We are changed, the Holy Spirt dwells within us “to will and to do”.
John 3:16-17 “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
Let us look at one point at a time. God has given us a lot to reflect on. I look forward to your thoughts.
In the name of Jesus, King of Kings, Lord of Lords,
Brian
“Was this sophomoric or was it hyperbole?”
It was very commonplace for Luther, who sought to resolve his great crisis re: faith and worthiness before God by insisting in hyperbolic but firmly held terms that nothing we can do can severe our saving relationship with Christ. Luther was undoubtedly complex and he was hardly consistent, but it seems to me that he gave in to a subjective and experiential understanding of salvation. And that, in so many ways, was the appeal of his teachings and larger than life personality.
From a biblical perspective Luther was the Church’s version of Jeroboam. The Church at the time was in bad need of reform. The hierarchy was just as off track as was King Solomon. The Second Temple went to destruction in 70AD, in New Testament times. The split of the Church is one more piece of evidence that the Old Covenant chastisements have lost none of their potency.
Carl,
I’ve studied with some of the best medievalists in the world and your essay completely misunderstands the nature of Ockham’s nominalism and the moderate realism of the Aristotelians. The question is not whether we can “perceive” universals–both Thomists and Ockhamists deny this and hold we only ever perceive singulars. The disagreement is over whether individual things can be instances of “shared” natures. I’m a thomist, but generally people I meet do not give the power of Ockham’s arguments nearly enough credit and they are far too willing to make the connection between Ockham’s conceptualism and modernity without actually understanding him (including scholars like Brad Gregory). There is a connection, but it is much more tenuous then is generally held.
All the best,
Matt
Some Lutherans may have outdone Martin Luther and I would not credit Luther for it. They would have done what he failed to live himself; doing so in spite of the errors and profligacy in his teachings. I imagine that some of them would have come over to Catholicism which deserves to receive such conversions.
Luther had his day and nothing is going to correct it, it’s finished. Lutheranism is now at the mercy of Modernism and has no defense against it.
Dear Elias:
A pleasure to hear from you and consider retort.
For arguments sake, let’s say you are correct in your summation. It has been my experience that there is a famine of Biblical reference to support what should be a godly and informative dialogues! It leads me to presume that the Catholics responding to my posts are unaware of the depth and breadth of Holy Scripture! Of course I stand to be corrected (indeed some have an understanding of God’s word) and share it with the reader. That is a great pleasure for me.
For such an important topic, could I ask you to support your suppositions with biblical proofs? Some will not take the time to let God formulate their answer, yet you strike me as a man of curiosity and seeker of truth. Let God be your guide and you will be a blessing to all who love the Lord.
With appreciation and respect,,
Brian
“Suppositions?” Why not examine your own; your postings come across as self-righteous judgmentalism: “It leads me to presume that the Catholics responding to my posts are unaware of the depth and breadth of Holy Scripture!” Just listen to yourself!
“Biblical proofs”? As if Scripture claims—somewhere? show us—to actually replace the living Tradition that it reports. Lend an ear to St. Paul: “So then, brothers and sisters, stand firm and hold fast to the teachings we passed on to you, whether by word of mouth [!] or by letter” (2 Thessalonians 2:15). Word of mouth [!] even before the letters…Or maybe lend an attentive ear to Christ himself: “And he took bread, gave thanks and broke it, and gave it to them, saying, ‘This is my body given for you; do this in remembrance of me’ (Luke 22:19, 1 Cor 11:24, etc.).
DO THIS, more than read about it?
The sacramental life within the Word, as well as (yes) the words. And therefore, the Apostolic Succession by the laying on of hands—and which Luther denied. It is the Church that compiled the biblical canon in A.D. 393 and 397 (the councils of Hippo and Carthage—councils, already part of the Tradition), as ratified later at Trent. That is to say, compiled over a millennium before the decapitated theory of sola Scriptura. The actual “depth and breadth” of the Church is based upon, but also precedes your admirable “depth and breadth” of and canonical and printing-press Scripture.
Yes, “take time to let God formulate [the] answer,” as witnessed already (!) in Scripture itself, the Tradition that gave/gives us the canonical words of Scripture.
Dear Peter:
Amongst Catholics, the consensus seems to be that Luther had a myriad of faults. Alas, so do I. While most have run down Luther to the point of character assassination, for me, the good that a man does better defines him. I find many shortcomings in myself and there is much confession that accompanies it.
Point by point in relation to scripture, will define Luther’s position and whether he chose the correct path. There is a paucity of direct criticism of where he went wrong. If was as bad as some suggest, the task should be an easy one, yet why is one reluctant to bring proofs?
You have suggested some Catholics are “allergic” to scripture if I am not mistaken? Talking points should have a shared major-premiss, perhaps we have missed the point of a syllogism here. The fault must be mine.
To your credit, you added a few verses of scripture, it didn’t appear to overstrain you at all! Yes, I have been sharp with you of late, but with the gifts the Lord has given you, you have been reluctant to bring them out and put them to play. The esoteric, while interesting and challenging may not be why the Lord has you here. It is to bless us with spiritual insight and unlock/address spiritual problems that beset one on the earthy journey. We are not our own, we owe fidelity to Him who bought us. If I am mistaken or overstepped the mark, please forgive me.
God bless you, for He loves you,greatly,
Brian
Dear Peter:
The beeline to your latest post was out of service, so I’ll veer off in this direction, after all what’s a day without a little crossfire amongst neighbours?
The joint statement of “the Lutheran World Federation and the Roman Catholic Church (1999)”, must have caused consternation amongst the gung ho in the church! I won’t speculate on something that I have no knowledge of, so lets turn our attention to James’s wise council! Carl O and I were addressing the same puzzle, so I’ll basically say the same.
James 2 22-24 You see that faith was active along with his works, and faith was completed by his works; 23 and the Scripture was fulfilled that says, “Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness”—and he was called a friend of God. You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone.
The real question is who’s works are they? Works ordained by God are works we can do. It is the outworking of our faith that assures us that our faith is not vain. Our works do not save us, rather they assure us that the Holy Spirit is at work within us to will and to do. We take no credit for the works, only rejoice that God increases our certitude through His Holy Spirit.
Philippians 2:13 for it is God who works in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure.
Colossians 1:10 so as to walk in a manner worthy of the Lord, fully pleasing to him, bearing fruit in every good work and increasing in the knowledge of God.
Hebrews 13:21 equip you with everything good that you may do his will, working in us that which is pleasing in his sight, through Jesus Christ, to whom be glory forever and ever. Amen.
2 Corinthians 5:17 Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away; behold, the new has come.
1 Corinthians 12:6 and there are varieties of activities, but it is the same God who empowers them all in everyone.
Titus 3:4-5 But when the goodness and loving kindness of God our Saviour appeared, he saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit,
Scripture interprets scripture. When we face a verse that may seem troublesome, others tend to put matters into perspective.
Yours in Christ,
Brian
Brian Young my point would be that given the timeline and the finality for Luther, Scripture can’t rectify him in anything or do anything for him anymore, it’s too late. Reflect on his downward spiral: instead of joining in healing where needed in the face of others’ errors and having a filial submission, he attacked the Church, broke apart and ejected central components of faith and made himself lord over the whole jumble, using Scripture to arrange justifications ad hoc, as he went.
In effect then his deployments of Scripture are defective, being incipiently flawed and bearing out ill-turned renderings for buttressing his dislocations and made-to-fit arrangements. He died a very unhappy camper. You are supposed to join for his sake the never-ending pity he claimed God was would give him and anyone like him.
What you see, there, is a serious distraction away from Jesus Christ and from the basic rationality of faith.
Edit : ….. God was to give him and anyone like him….”
Dear Elias:
Thank you for your thoughts. In general terms you may suggest he was be irredeemable, what he wrought was catastrophic! You are not alone and yet, scripture speaks of evil, tarring asunder, manipulation and going against God’s word. So to apply Holy Writ may well be appropriate in Luther’s case.
There is an irony here, I know little of the man, yet I seem to be in the position of an apologist?
Apostolic Tradition is vital to the Church and so is Holy Scripture. If Luther happened to be correct, scripture will validate his position, even though it would still be unacceptable to some!
Encyclopedia Britannica says “To Luther, the Bible should be the only source of spiritual authority. He opposed giving spiritual authority to tradition, the pope, or any other political or religious leader, including himself.”
2 Timothy 3:16 All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness,
Romans 15:4 For whatever was written in former days was written for our instruction, that through endurance and through the encouragement of the Scriptures we might have hope.
Hebrews 4:12 For the word of God is living and active, sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing to the division of soul and of spirit, of joints and of marrow, and discerning the thoughts and intentions of the heart.
2 Peter 1:19-21 And we have something more sure, the prophetic word, to which you will do well to pay attention as to a lamp shining in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts, knowing this first of all, that no prophecy of Scripture comes from someone’s own interpretation. For no prophecy was ever produced by the will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit.
Mark 12:24 Jesus said to them, “Is this not the reason you are wrong, because you know neither the Scriptures nor the power of God?
If this is a partial basis on which he made his determination, can we fault this premise?
As a counterpoint, it would be apt to see where he went off the road, via scripture.
I encourage you because you are capable, some are not, however I look forward to your biblical response, if you will!
God bless you,
Brian
Brian Young, where I live lodge boys use the phrase “Holy Writ” as a commonplace; even the Catholic ones, so I can tell it is not exclusive to the non-Catholics inside there with them.
I don’t declare that you are a Freemason, I am merely stating what I notice. Invariably when the masons hit on the Bible out loud what they are signalling is a closing of their ranks. The more simple among Protestants don’t know the danger that is lurking with it.
Another way they have for doing the same manoeuvre is by calling down Basil.
A counsel came and told me not to add Scripture to what I already said. What I said speaks for itself. Enough Scripture has been cited and more of it would just be superfluous.
Also, this way, I avoid any temptation to vanity.
In any event flattery does not mean more things have yet to be posited. That was the essential advice and as it happens it’s true!
Moreover I sense a certain intractableness attending with your request carrying a need to be affirmed in your dependence on Scripture and affirmed in your framing of the discussion.
Why you are so I do not know. I mentioned elsewhere you seem not to be Catholic but you never said what your faith is.
The counsel assures me none of it is my mission here and those are things best left for you to invalidate.
Dear Elias:
Your most recent response is appreciated as it allows me to address some speculations and queries you pose, regarding my faith.
The last time I checked, holy-writ and scripture are synonymous! As far as the “lodge boys” they have their beliefs and from what I have read about Masons, nothing would persuade me to join. You mention “Basil”, you don’t mean the Basilian Fathers? Otherwise I am not acquainted with the reference.
If the discussion is about an apple orchard, it makes little sense to answer about an apricot orchard! Tradition is tradition and scripture is scripture. Of course they overlap and should be complimentary, but the force of the dialogue is about Jesus Christ. Is He not the essence of the Catholic Church? If I try to bring understanding about Him, why am I rebuked? If I ask for tradition that exalts Him, why is the query rebuffed?
I believe in the Holy Trinity, the virgin birth of the Lord Jesus, His perfection, His death and resurrection and He is the intercessor with the Father for the remission of our sins.
My probes are to cause people to remember what a saviour we have! The church is under attack, from inside and from without. The Catholic Church is a vital element in proclaiming “Christ crucified” and the salvation that comes with belief in Him. We need to join forces to help one another and to share the Good News of Jesus Christ.
God bless you,
Brian
Brian Young, I am glad I could spill the beans on the lodge as I did and explain why I wasn’t adding Scripture in keeping with a good advice.
Brian,
You brandish Scripture as a weapon, swinging it about with reckless abandon, while totally unaware of the plank in your own eye.
You are bent on defending, even forcing your perceived and imagined perfection of martin luther as the savior who saved Christ Himself from the Catholics.
Our Lord says, “You will know them by their fruits.”
So, objectively, let’s look at the fruits of martin luther:
1) did he build up, or tear down?
2) Did he unify or did he divide?
3) did he heal or did he wound?
4) did he accept the invitation offered him by the Catholic Church to participate in the Council of Trent, or did he reject the opportunity for dialog and potential reconciliation in order to drive his division of Christianity even deeper?
4) where, in any version of the Bible, can we find the “Book of Martin Luther”?
Remember well that we Catholics hold him in no esteem, especially of the magnitude as do you. To us, he was a fool.
2 Peter 1:2 May grace and peace be multiplied to you in the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord.
Philippians 1:6 And I am sure of this, that he who began a good work in you will bring it to completion at the day of Jesus Christ.
Ephesians 4:2 With all humility and gentleness, with patience, bearing with one another in love,
Psalm 32:8 I will instruct you and teach you in the way you should go; I will counsel you with my eye upon you.
Revelation 22:18-19 I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: if anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book, and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God will take away his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book.
2 Corinthians 10:4-5 For the weapons of our warfare are not of the flesh but have divine power to destroy strongholds. We destroy arguments and every lofty opinion raised against the knowledge of God, and take every thought captive to obey Christ,
Ephesians 6:17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God,
God bless you Paul