Vatican City, Mar 23, 2018 / 05:00 am (CNA/EWTN News).- Cardinal John Tong Hon has voiced support for a proposed deal on the appointment of bishops between the Vatican and China, saying he believes the Chinese government has generally become more tolerant, and an accord would help bring further openness and unity to the Church.
Tong is the Bishop Emeritus of Hong Kong, and spoke at a March 22-23 conference titled “Christianity in the Chinese Society: Impact, Interaction and Inculturation” taking place at Rome’s Pontifical Gregorian University.
Tong is one of two Chinese cardinals, the other being his predecessor, Cardinal Joseph Zen. While Zen has consistently been an outspoken critic of the proposed deal, Hon holds a different opinion.
In an interview with a small number of journalists, one of which was CNA, Hon said opposition to the accord is “unreasonable,” because the deal aims at unity. He called the agreement “far-sighted” and said at times, sacrifice is necessary in order for Catholics to become “members of one family.”
The deal – which would allegedly follow the model of the Vatican’s agreement with Vietnam, allowing the Holy See to pick bishops from a selection of candidates proposed by the government – is rumored to be “imminent.”
In a recent blog post, Cardinal Zen indicated that the agreement could be signed as early as March 23 (tomorrow) or March 27. If the deal is reached, Zen said he would “retire in silence” and would “hide and pray,” but that he would not oppose the pope.
In his interview with journalists, Cardinal Hon said he didn’t want to speculate about when the deal might come, but said he was “optimistic” it would eventually happen.
Below are excerpts of Cardinal Hon’s conversation with journalists:
Q: This conference is addressing the presence of Christianity in China. From your perspective, what is the current situation for Christians there? Some say there is persecution and an increase in restrictions for religions, but others say the situation has improved. What is your take?
I am a Hong Kong citizen. Hong Kong belongs to one country, is a part of China, yet Hong Kong, after 1997, is one country run under two systems, meaning Hong Kong still continues to be a capitalistic administration, and China is under the socialist system for 50 years. So we are doing the same things as before. Regarding China, I am also a foreigner, so that means I’m not an insider. I can offer my impression with a limited knowledge of China…In a general picture I think China has already greatly improved, so sometimes you find this tightening in this part or that part, but China is huge. You cannot use this to describe…If we have a very far-sighted vision about China, I think China is [becoming] more civilized, closer to the outside world. And then I think the general situation, in the present, is better. Those would be my remarks.
Q: So your perception is that China is more open to religion, is more tolerant?
In the future also it should be, not the other way. Because the people can come out from China, now most of the people like to come to Hong Kong or outside of China for a week, so their eyes are opened after seeing the outside world. So they of course have higher expectations. And also the officials, knowing, they are not stupid, they know the expectations of most of the common people, and although on one hand they want to exercise their authority over the common people, but at the same time they have to compromise. So from time to time, sometimes [there’s] a tightening, but other times [there’s] a loosening policy. But in the long run China will be more and wider open, there is no other way. If I were the officials, I would do similar things. So I am optimistic.
Q: In your opening remarks you spoke about the importance of dialogue and communication between Chinese authorities and Christianity. This reminded me of your remarks in February about a deal between the Vatican and China on the appointment of bishops and allowing the Church to be registered in China. You said you were optimistic if it followed the Vietnamese model. Some say it won’t follow this model. Are you still optimistic?
Yes, I’m still optimistic, because I always, this is my belief, whatever is reasonable can last for a long time. Whatever is unreasonable will fade out or has to be changed. You can see from the whole of human history, even the history of China. Even Mao, Mao was so cruel, so strong, but finally…and also the cultural revolution created a lot of chaotic situations in China, but finally those situations have been changed. So there is no other way.
Q: So in this case ‘reasonable’ would be the deal, and ‘unreasonable’ would be against it?
Yes.
Q: A lot has been said in the media about your predecessor, Cardinal Zen, who has spoken out a lot against this deal. What is your opinion about this and what it says about the current dynamics in China?
This is a free world, everybody can express their own opinion. Everyone can use their own mind, their wisdom, to discern. So when you open your eyes and also open your ears, you can hear many, many different voices. So this is a free world. What can you say? We, as persons, we respect everybody as a person. So different opinions, up to your own wisdom to discern. That’s my [opinion], which I received from my teacher, it’s the lesson I learned.
Q: How is Pope Francis received in China? In the West he’s very popular even among non-Catholics. Is it the same in China?
Yes. Generally speaking, he’s loved by Catholics and non-Catholics.
Q: What’s the appeal?
He’s a humble person. The first thing is that he is really humble, and a humble person will be loved by many people. If you are proud you get a lot of enemies. This is also biblical teaching by our Lord Jesus. So we have to be humble. Jesus humbled himself and came down to earth and finally received crucifixion, suffering. So humility is important, that’s one thing. And second, he has a far-sighted vision. He’s not only seeing [now], but how to achieve the reign of God. The reign of God is to make humanity whole, to be one family, and we are all brothers and sisters, the whole world. Also through the negotiations promoted and advocated by the Second Vatican Council…Sometimes we can lose something so we can achieve friendship and set an example for all others and all other people, so finally we become friends, and then eventually we become all members of one family. At that time the reign of God will be implemented on earth…I was trained here 50 years ago at the Urbanianum. At that time the Second Vatican Council was being held, and I witnessed the grand closing ceremony. And right away I was ordained a priest with more than 60 classmates by Pope Paul VI. So that is what we were taught, and we have also what we were taught to believe in. So if you don’t believe that, that it’s only looking for [certain] things, that’s your business, that’s not my faith. And finally, we have to pray for the Church in China.
Q: People have been talking about a deal with China for years, and now it seems that is pretty sure…
I don’t want to make any guess, it’s up to God’s will.
Q: But if it does happen, is there something about Francis’ pontificate or diplomatic style that would allow the deal to happen? Is there something about the way he does diplomacy that would make the deal more likely than in the past?
If there’s any breakthrough, it’s God’s will, I don’t want to make any speculation. I’m not a prophet, I only follow our dogmatic teaching in the Church, and also the teaching of the constitutions issued by the Second Vatican Council. What I have learned in teaching in seminary, we pray for the Church in China, but I don’t want to make any speculations…during the year, almost three years ago, during the year of divine mercy, the Church in China, particularly, during that period, was also very happy to respond to the appeal made by the Holy Father. So it shows that they are very positive about the Holy Father because they follow the instructions given by the Holy Father.
[…]
The comparison between old-hat Call to Action and the new red-hat Synodality, together with the reference to Yogi Berra, calls to mind a remark made by Yogi’s son, Dale. Said he: “the similarities between me and my father are different.”
Dale is his father’s son, but I think he made the slipery point.
Excerpt: Real confusion… “Call To Action is a disturbing reminder that there also are excellent reasons to hope the big winner doesn’t turn out instead to be today’s woke Catholicism.” WHAT does woke Catholicism mean? Enter Governor Ron DeSantis. He is the WOKE champion. He uses the acronym over and over in his politiacl campaign. I have not seen him or Mr. Shaw explain the acronym, yet.
I am not aware that WOKE is an acronym.To a certain group of pathetic and self loathing people, it means to be THEIR version of “self aware”. It means someone with much less education than you has decided that YOU are the reason they and their family have not achieved success. These people are applauded for their “brilliant” observation as they abscond with millions in donations, intended for others but used by themselves. They are “victims”, you know?? That is in spite of all sorts of minorities working freely in occupations from medicine to politics to astronaut, YOU are the problem, and they are oppressed. Companies jump on this band-wagon for fear of being thought “racist”. Coke, Hallmark, bud Light, the Dodgers. Its the reason mobs can mass shoplift stores and dangerous criminals are never brought to trial or locked up. Its the reason that teachers will now TRANS your kid without telling you, while they are not permitted to offer them an aspirin. And its why if you complain about it at a school board meeting, the FBI will target you as a “domestic terrorist”. Are these crazed activist folks fueled by the DEMs?? Absolutely. They are in the pocket of these activists and have their votes sealed up. Like their friends the teachers unions in blue cities, who have set back our children by years they will never recover. Indeed, if after ALL that has happened in the last two years; deaths in Afghanistan and abandonment of billions of advanced weapons to our enemies, food shortages, closed churches, rising prices for necessities, unaffordable mortgages, and an open border bleeding the worlds poor into our nation on our dime; if you still think things are A-ok, I can only say to all Democrats, your elevator is a few floors shy of the top, and the blood of your country is on your hands.
Right! The death of civilization is no laughing matter. And neither is the unraveling of God’s Church a matter to merely be lamented while we continue to feel obligated to extend formalities towards a man who has clearly aided and abetted crimes against humanity. If there is anything “holy” or “fatherly” about Francis, then let God’s rivers of mercy at his final accounting prevail. In the meantime, his torching of the Deposit of Faith merits no respect at all, certainly not the title traditionally accorded. And no parent who cares about the heart, mind, and soul of their children should let them anywhere near him at any upcoming “World Youth Day”.
Dear LJ. I don’t want to get too far into the political weeds, but your exhusting diatribe attempting to define WOKE in the vernaculure and a toxic ideology needs a retort. You even implies domestic violence… “And its why if you complain about it at a school board meeting, the FBI will target you as a “domestic terrorist””.
That position seeks to incite the “hostile, toxic Right” to destroy the good work of the FBI, our national police force, who protect YOU an me from foreign and DOMESTIC terrorism evry day!
The 1/6 failed coup by Trump flag waving criminals, The Proud Boys, the Oath Keepers, etc resulted in the conviction of leaders for Seditious Conspiracy, (treason?). OK’s Tyrants Rhodes was sentenced to 18 years in prison. Meggs was sentenced to 12 years in prison. A real crime is that we will have to fund their existence and coddle them for those years. The WH command words went from, “you must fight like hell”, to, 3 hours later, “go home, we love you…”. The result of those 3 hours our democracy went dark as a new dangerious ideology arose from the swamp.
Lets get to WOKE the adjective…
Merriam-Webster Dictionary states.
The definition of “woke” changes depending on who you ask.
The term has recently been used by some conservatives as an INSULT against progressive values.
The term, however, was originally coined by progressive Black Americans and used in racial justice movements in the early to mid-1900s.
To be “woke” politically in the Black community means that someone is informed, educated and conscious of social injustice and racial inequality.
My burnt offering. Watch this space.
Thanks for my laugh of the day, and for confirming the deranged view the left has of J6. I seldom respond to leftists because its a waste of time and they have no general regard for facts. Its hard to imagine AMERICAN people indoctrinated enough to believe any sort of REAL “coup” could remotely be conducted by unarmed people. Seriously? My cat could conduct a more effective coup. How far would that sort of coup get against the US military? These were simply angry Americans, many former military, police, etc, wanting to be heard. Were some people over the top and out of control? Absolutely but much less so than the VERY REAL and deadly BLM riots which occurred over a year long period earlier,in MANY cities, which injured thousands and burned down billions in business establishments, ACTUALLY taking over several police stations and American cities. Or did J6 only matter because it took place in Washington DC? The left went on and on about 5 dead on J6, a lie that has been repeated ad nauseam. The cop who lay in state was used as a shill, as was his family, as his doctor reported he died of natural causes, but Pelosi and gang didnt care. All that matters is the accusation, NOT the truth. The only person who died that day was an UNARMED woman shot by a capitol cop. Nor did Pelosi make use of the National guard offered to her by Trump before the rally. Hardly a good strategy by Trump if you are planning a “takeover”. Why was Pelosi’s role never questioned? Why did the FBI have members in the crowd who helped to incite? The fact is the Capitol building was barely damaged in those couple of hours, and film footage FINALLY released shows most people simply wandering through the building. So much of a nothing burger that several hours later Congress returned to session. A statement which could NOT be made about several BLM riots, including the one which happened directly in FRONT of the White House in which a CHURCH was set on fire, and the President and family removed to a safe room. And what of the J6 “Shaman”, sentenced to jail when film footage withheld deliberately by the govt contained enough exculpatory evidence to get his jail sentence immediately terminated? He is not the only one being held for years without trial, something I thought only happened in third rate gulag nations. Keep telling yourself the problem is with the right, who want fair elections ( fought at every turn by DEMs) and dont want their kids propagandized or sexually groomed.Our churches were closed and now people can be fired for using the wrong pronouns at work, while our girls have to change in locker rooms with men.All while the DEMs applaud. The rot I smell is coming from the left.
I know what you feel, you feel with great passion. God be with the better side of your instincts. I had such passions when I was young. But no one can afford to be simplistic about words like progressive or even progress itself. What do they really mean? Does progress really exist?
If you hold to the omnipotence of God, you know in this sense there is no such thing as a proposed new idea that can be new since truth is the reflection of the mind of God and God knows everything already. God allows us discovery and the talent to articulate truth, but we can only discover and witness what God already knows. Anything we discover must simply complement what we have already received. In this particular and real sense progress does not exist, and revolutions are so much human vanity that almost always do more harm than good.
I met Martin Luther King when I was 14 years old and was proud to join a civil rights demonstration in NYC, but the change he envisioned was for an innate divinely endowed vision of justice. So much of what today’s left seeks are the politics of a venomous hatred and resentment. This is not justice. If there is not a willingness on the part of a reformer to personally suffer with the downtrodden, there is no authentic desire to make the world better.
Thanks for this history lesson.
I think I finally get it.
Thanks to CWR for publishing Russell Shaw’s reminder about the Call to Action. Oddly, I instantly recognized the name, but wasn’t clear if it was from a 1970ish political bumper sticker. Then a few snippets came back: one or two articles in the archdiocesan weekly newspaper announcing the opening session, but never any follow up. It was all “call” no action.
Perhaps for Catholics who are confused by the term “woke Catholicism,” Shaw or CWR can provide something like The Five Telltale Signalings of Woke Catholics. Would the first one be admitting one remains a Democrat?
“admitting one remains a Democrat?” That sounds political. With the current painful self-destruction of my unrecognizable Republican Party, how can I say I will “remain”?
You aren’t a Republican, although you try to pose as one, so the point is moot.
Stick with the Republicans.
Have a look at Edward Feser’s work on “wokeness”, e.g.:
https://edwardfeser.blogspot.com/2023/03/how-to-define-wokeness.html
‘ Think! How are you going to think and hit at the same time? ‘
– Lawrence Peter Yogi Berra
That sure looks like a picture of a priestess on the brochure.
Based on what I read, priorities seem to be synods about this and that, the environment, alphabet-related issues, aligning the Gospel with modern culture, and realpolitik. This has not and will not produce a dynamic evangelizing Church.
It’s good to remember those tumultuous times. The days when churches were gutted of everything that was beautiful and replaced with pastel paints and blandness. The ultimate goal is an architectural cross between a cafeteria and auditorium. First to go was the pulpitum and altar rails. The service itself ceased to be an exchange between the priest and the altar boys with the participants silent observers meditating on the mystery.. It became a service between priests and people proclaiming the mysteries together. Into this interaction stepped the paid music director and modern liturgical music was “Gathered” into a song book. So today’s mass is conducted by the priest and the responses provided by a musician and an opera singer, with no one to control their volume. Painfully loud braying and playing have replaced the altar boys. Once again the people are silent. And for some unknown reason, people are abandoning this mass for the traditional mass. Families, Men, women and children all attend together. I recently attended mass at the new SSPX church in ST Mary’s Kansas. Well over 1,000 people from new born to near death attended the Sunday mass, there were three masses that Sunday all equally full. God gave us his greatest gifts, communion, his son, and the bible. It seems he has left all the churches to our devices.
We needed an update on the Ratzinger Report, not another reason why a new one should be written. Enough with the crises! We still haven’t recovered from the one in the 1960’s, for PETE’S SAKE!
“admitting one remains a Democrat?” That sounds political. With the current painful self-destruction of my unrecognizable Republican Party, how can I say I will “remain”?
When I look back I do not see it as disjointed but as past things bearing their fruit and continuing to add “new dimensions” and crops.
Things don’t inhere in the Church because they are accommodated or worked through with Christian or spiritual language. Spiritual language itself is not Christian just because it wants to be about being “spiritual” or about “being selfless”.
Substitute the word “moral” as it is used say in “moral high-ground” sometimes -you find another confusion.
Unfortunately it would seem many in the the priesthood will have difficulty catching sight of it or just won’t preach/warn against it. They instead get taken up with every kind of awe-things said to be about being “spiritual” or “selfless” or “caring”. Going like this down through those decades.
Shaw’s use of the term “woke” comes from it being topical, I think; and his use of it doesn’t detract from the force of his thought and the lesson he draws from history.
I feel just like Charlie Brown in ‘A Charlie Brown Chritmas’ sometimes and want to shout out, “Doesn’t anyone know the true meaning of Christianity?’ Yes the Christian world could use a Pope Linus right now.
The one good thing that came out of Call to Action, oddly enough, was the Call to Holiness conferences, a reaction similar to what I just read elsewhere on CWR about a pushback group in Germany called Neuer Anfang (New Beginning). The lesson there is that we can’t just sit back and do nothing while others are out to dismantle the Church.
There is actually a Spaghetti Western called “All the Brothers of the West Support Their Father” – aka “Miss Dynamite” – aka “Where the Bullets Fly”.
Tutti fratelli nel west… per parte di padre
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Klg0uEfCYoQ
This tutti frutti Spaghetti western doesn’t play on some platforms of Samsung smart phone and Apple iPhone, “video not available”.
Yogi Beria also said: “It ain’t over till it’s over”
Stephen in Acts openly scolded the particular set of Jews gathered there and they stoned him to death. Nowadays you’re likely to get “talked to death” while everyone “walks together” – instead of a stoning; with no-one to take charge of the situation according on what is true. It still escapes me why either case should be considered necessarily so problematic every time that no-one may ever be reprimanded. If you are afraid to speak as truth demands sometimes, you join up with stiff-necked!
God showed Jonah His care for the people and His solicitude to lead them OUT of their wrong way. He didn’t put Jonah through all the turmoil in order to have him pander to them in His Name. Jonah had to bear out the responsibility of a weighty task naming the wrongs; which as it it happened would come out favourably.
If something will come our unfavourably it is not that God is endorsing milksop preaching etc. The precedents for such business are all on the bad side.
The revolt by Episcopalians across the globe against Welby and his circles, is a serious setback for Pope Francis’ “legalize” homosexual “civil union” idea. The think tanks with that are back to the drawing board, things are not quite what was anticipated.
Meantime those who revolted demonstrate soundness of mind but Pope Francis can’t build an appeal in it, he has “sided with Welby” and made himself appear to join the coronation of King Charles III and to be an establishment-ish suitor to Anglicanism.
I love the Papacy, it’s Christ’s. It is very untoward to be highlighting the misgivings of these times that has to be done because there is not escaping them.
https://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/254487/pope-francis-to-sign-human-fraternity-document-with-nobel-laureates-in-st-peter-s-square
Edit my entry above last sentence: ” ….. that has to be done because there is no escaping them.”
https://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/254504/thousands-of-united-methodist-churches-break-away-over-lgbtq-plus-disagreements