Father Ramon Guidetti has been excommunicated by his local bishop for saying in a homily that Pope Francis “is not the pope” and calling him “a usurper.” (Credit: Screenshot from Radio Domina NostraYouTube channel, Jan. 3, 2024)
Rome Newsroom, Jan 3, 2024 / 11:08 am (CNA).
An Italian priest has been excommunicated by his local bishop for saying in a homily that Pope Francis “is not the pope” and calling him “a usurper.”
The Diocese of Livorno in Tuscany issued a decree on Jan. 1 notifying Catholics that Father Ramon Guidetti “publicly committed a schismatic act” during Mass and has ipso facto incurred “latae sententiae excommunication,” or an automatic excommunication.
Bishop Simone Giusti informed his diocese that Catholics are not to attend any Masses offered by the excommunicated priest or they would also “incur the very serious penalty of excommunication.”
The bishop cited Canon 751, which defines schism as “the refusal of submission to the Supreme Pontiff or of communion with the members of the Church subject to him.”
A video uploaded to YouTube shows Guidetti calling Pope Francis a “usurper” and a “freemason” in his homily given on Dec. 31, 2023, to mark the one-year anniversary of Benedict XVI’s death.
In the homily, the priest further denied that Pope Francis has been the pope for the last decade.
Guidetti, 48, had served since 2017 as a parish priest of the Church of San Ranieri, located outside of the coastal city of Livorno about 150 miles north of Rome.
According to a local paper in Livorno, the bishop met with Guidetti before Christmas to discuss his dissent and proceeded with the official excommunication decree after the priest’s public act of schism on Dec. 31.
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NASA’s Webb captures a dying star’s Final ‘Performance’ in fine detail: A planetary nebula, shaped like an irregular oval, with lacy, reddish orange plumes of gas and dust. / NASA, ESA, CSA, and STScI via Flickr (CC BY 2.0)
Pope Francis at the general audience in St. Peter’s Square, Oct. 5, 2016. / Credit: Daniel Ibanez/CNA
CNA Staff, Mar 13, 2024 / 12:00 pm (CNA).
March 13 marks the anniversary of the election of Pope Francis as the 266th successor of St. Peter. Here is a timeline of key events during his papacy:
2013
March 13 — About two weeks after Pope Benedict XVI steps down from the papacy, Cardinal Jorge Bergoglio is elected pope. He takes the papal name Francis in honor of St. Francis of Assisi and proclaims from the central balcony of St. Peter’s Basilica: “Let us begin this journey, the bishop and people, this journey of the Church of Rome, which presides in charity over all the Churches, a journey of brotherhood in love, of mutual trust. Let us always pray for one another.”
March 14 — The day after he begins his pontificate, Pope Francis returns to his hotel to personally pay his hotel bill and collect his luggage.
July 8 — Pope Francis visits Italy’s island of Lampedusa and meets with a group of 50 migrants, most of whom are young men from Somalia and Eritrea. The island, which is about 200 miles off the coast of Tunisia, is a common entry point for migrants who flee parts of Africa and the Middle East to enter Europe. This is the pope’s first pastoral visit outside of Rome and sets the stage for making reaching out to the peripheries a significant focus.
Pope Francis gives the Wednesday general audience in St. Peter’s Square on Oct. 2, 2013. Elise Harris/CNA.
July 23-28 — Pope Francis visits Rio de Janeiro, Brazil, to participate in World Youth Day 2013. More than 3 million people from around the world attend the event.
July 29 — On the return flight from Brazil, Pope Francis gives his first papal news conference and sparks controversy by saying “if a person is gay and seeks God and has goodwill, who am I to judge?” The phrase is prompted by a reporter asking the pope a question about priests who have homosexual attraction.
Nov. 24 — Pope Francis publishes his first apostolic exhortation Evangelii Gaudium (The Joy of the Gospel). The document illustrates the pope’s vision for how to approach evangelization in the modern world.
2014
Feb. 22 — Pope Francis holds his first papal consistory to appoint 19 new cardinals, including ones from countries in the developing world that have never previously been represented in the College of Cardinals, such as Haiti.
March 22 — Pope Francis creates the Pontifical Commission for the Protection of Minors. The commission works to protect the dignity of minors and vulnerable adults, such as the victims of sexual abuse.
Pope Francis greets pilgrims during his general audience on Nov. 29, 2014. Bohumil Petrik/CNA.
Oct. 5 — The Synod on the Family begins. The bishops discuss a variety of concerns, including single-parent homes, cohabitation, homosexual adoption of children, and interreligious marriages.
Dec. 6 — After facing some pushback for his efforts to reform the Roman Curia, Pope Francis discusses his opinion in an interview with La Nacion, an Argentine news outlet: “Resistance is now evident. And that is a good sign for me, getting the resistance out into the open, no stealthy mumbling when there is disagreement. It’s healthy to get things out into the open, it’s very healthy.”
2015
Jan. 18 — To conclude a trip to Asia, Pope Francis celebrates Mass in Manila, Philippines. Approximately 6 million to 7 million people attend the record-setting Mass, despite heavy rain.
March 23 — Pope Francis visits Naples, Italy, to show the Church’s commitment to helping the fight against corruption and organized crime in the city.
May 24 — To emphasize the Church’s mission to combat global warming and care for the environment, Pope Francis publishes the encyclical Laudato Si’, which urges people to take care of the environment and encourages political action to address climate problems.
Pope Francis at a Wednesday general audience in St. Peter’s Square on June 17, 2015. Bohumil Petrik.
Sept. 19-22 — Pope Francis visits Cuba and meets with Fidel Castro in the first papal visit to the country since Pope John Paul II in 1998. During his homily, Francis discusses the dignity of the human person: “Being a Christian entails promoting the dignity of our brothers and sisters, fighting for it, living for it.”
Sept. 22-27 — After departing from Cuba, Pope Francis makes his first papal visit to the United States. In Washington, D.C., he speaks to a joint session of Congress, in which he urges lawmakers to work toward promoting the common good, and canonizes the Franciscan missionary St. Junípero Serra. He also attends the World Meeting of Families in Philadelphia, which focuses on celebrating the gift of the family.
Pope Francis speaks to the U.S. Congress in Washington, D.C. on Sept. 24, 2015. . L’Osservatore Romano.
Oct. 4 — Pope Francis begins the second Synod on the Family to address issues within the modern family, such as single-parent homes, cohabitation, poverty, and abuse.
Oct. 18 — The pope canonizes St. Louis Martin and St. Marie-Azélie “Zelie” Guérin. The married couple were parents to five nuns, including St. Therese of Lisieux. They are the first married couple to be canonized together.
Dec. 8 — Pope Francis’ Jubilee Year of Mercy begins. The year focuses on God’s mercy and forgiveness and people’s redemption from sin. The pope delegates certain priests in each diocese to be Missionaries of Mercy who have the authority to forgive sins that are usually reserved for the Holy See.
2016
March 19 — Pope Francis publishes the apostolic exhortation Amoris Laetitia, which discusses a wide variety of issues facing the modern family based on discussions from the two synods on the family. The pope garners significant controversy from within the Church for comments he makes in Chapter 8 about Communion for the divorced and remarried.
April 16 — After visiting refugees on the Greek island of Lesbos, Pope Francis allows three Muslim refugee families to join him on his flight back to Rome. He says the move was not a political statement.
Pope Francis at the General Audience in St. Peter’s Square, Feb. 24, 2016. Daniel Ibanez/CNA.
July 26-31 — Pope Francis visits Krakow, Poland, as part of the World Youth Day festivities. About 3 million young Catholic pilgrims from around the world attend.
Sept. 4 — The pope canonizes St. Teresa of Calcutta, who is also known as Mother Teresa. The saint, a nun from Albania, dedicated her life to missionary and charity work, primarily in India.
Sept. 30-Oct. 2 — Pope Francis visits Georgia and Azerbaijan on his 16th trip outside of Rome since the start of his papacy. His trip focuses on Catholic relations with Orthodox Christians and Muslims.
Oct. 4 — Pope Francis makes a surprise visit to Amatrice, Italy, to pray for the victims of an earthquake in central Italy that killed nearly 300 people.
2017
May 12-13 — In another papal trip, Francis travels to Fatima, Portugal, to visit the Shrine of Our Lady of Fatima. May 13 marks the 100th anniversary of the first Marian apparition to three children in the city.
July 11 — Pope Francis adds another category of Christian life suitable for the consideration of sainthood: “offering of life.” The category is distinct from martyrdom, which only applies to someone who is killed for his or her faith. The new category applies to those who died prematurely through an offering of their life to God and neighbor.
Pope Francis greets a participant in the World Day of the Poor in Rome, Nov. 16, 2017. L’Osservatore Romano.
Nov. 19 — On the first-ever World Day of the Poor, Pope Francis eats lunch with 4,000 poor and people in need in Rome.
Nov. 27-Dec. 2 — In another trip to Asia, Pope Francis travels to Myanmar and Bangladesh. He visits landmarks and meets with government officials, Catholic clergy, and Buddhist monks. He also preaches the Gospel and promotes peace in the region.
2018
Jan. 15-21 — The pope takes another trip to Latin America, this time visiting Chile and Peru. The pontiff meets with government officials and members of the clergy while urging the faithful to remain close to the clergy and reject secularism. The Chilean visit leads to controversy over Chilean clergy sex abuse scandals.
Aug. 2 — The Vatican formally revises No. 2267 of the Catechism of the Catholic Church, which concerns the death penalty. The previous text suggested the death penalty could be permissible in certain circumstances, but the revision states that the death penalty is “inadmissible.”
Aug. 25 — Archbishop Carlo Viganò, former papal nuncio to the United States, publishes an 11-page letter calling for the resignation of Pope Francis and accusing him and other Vatican officials of covering up sexual abuse including allegations against former Cardinal Theodore McCarrick. The pope initially does not directly respond to the letter, but nine months after its publication he denies having prior knowledge about McCarrick’s conduct.
Aug. 25-26 — Pope Francis visits Dublin, Ireland, to attend the World Meeting of Families. The theme is “the Gospel of family, joy for the world.”
Pope Francis at the 2018 World Meeting of Families in Ireland. Daniel Ibanez/CNA.
Oct. 3-28 — The Synod on Young People, the Faith, and Vocational Discernment takes place. The synod focuses on best practices to teach the faith to young people and to help them discern God’s will.
2019
Jan. 22-27 — The third World Youth Day during Pope Francis’ pontificate takes place during these six days in Panama City, Panama. Young Catholics from around the world gather for the event, with approximately 3 million people in attendance.
Feb. 4 — Pope Francis signs a joint document in with Sheikh Ahmed el-Tayeb, the grand imam of Al-Azhar, in Abu Dhabi, United Arab Emirates, titled the “Document on Human Fraternity for World Peace and Living Together.” The document focuses on people of different faiths uniting together to live peacefully and advance a culture of mutual respect.
Pope Francis and Ahmed el-Tayeb, grand imam of al-Azhar, signed a joint declaration on human fraternity during an interreligious meeting in Abu Dhabi, UAE, Feb. 4, 2019. Vatican Media.
Feb. 21-24 — The Meeting on the Protection of Minors in the Church, which is labeled the Vatican Sexual Abuse Summit, takes place. The meeting focuses on sexual abuse scandals in the Church and emphasizes responsibility, accountability, and transparency.
Oct. 6-27 — The Church holds the Synod of Bishops for the Pan-Amazon region, which is also known as the Amazon Synod. The synod is meant to present ways in which the Church can better evangelize the Amazon region but leads to controversy when carved images of a pregnant Amazonian woman, referred to by the pope as Pachamama, are used in several events and displayed in a basilica near the Vatican.
Oct. 13 — St. John Henry Newman, an Anglican convert to Catholicism and a cardinal, is canonized by Pope Francis. Newman’s writings inspired Catholic student associations at nonreligious colleges and universities in the United States and other countries.
2020
March 15 — Pope Francis takes a walking pilgrimage in Rome to the chapel of the crucifix and prays for an end to the COVID-19 pandemic. The crucifix was carried through Rome during the plague of 1522.
March 27 — Pope Francis gives an extraordinary “urbi et orbi” blessing in an empty and rain-covered St. Peter’s Square, praying for the world during the coronavirus pandemic.
Pope Francis venerates the miraculous crucifix of San Marcello al Corso in St. Peter’s Square during his Urbi et Orbi blessing, March 27, 2020. Vatican Media.
2021
March 5-8 — In his first papal trip since the start of the COVID-19 pandemic, Pope Francis becomes the first pope to visit Iraq. On his trip, he signs a joint statement with Grand Ayatollah Ali al-Sistani condemning extremism and promoting peace.
July 3 — Cardinal Giovanni Angelo Becciu, who was elevated to the College of Cardinals by Pope Francis, is indicted in a Vatican court for embezzlement, money laundering, and other crimes. The pope gives approval for the indictment.
July 4 — Pope Francis undergoes colon surgery for diverticulitis, a common condition in older people. The Vatican releases a statement that assures the pope “reacted well” to the surgery. Francis is released from the hospital after 10 days.
July 16 — Pope Francis issues a motu proprio titled Traditionis Custodes. The document imposes heavy restrictions on the celebration of the Traditional Latin Mass.
Dec. 2-6 — The pope travels to Cyprus and Greece. The trip includes another visit to the Greek island of Lesbos to meet with migrants.
Pope Francis greets His Beatitude Ieronymos II in Athens, Greece on Dec. 5, 2021. Vatican Media
2022
Jan. 11 — Pope Francis makes a surprise visit to a record store in Rome called StereoSound. The pope, who has an affinity for classical music, blesses the newly renovated store.
March 19 — The pope promulgates Praedicate Evangelium, which reforms the Roman Curia. The reforms emphasize evangelization and establish more opportunities for the laity to be in leadership positions.
May 5 — Pope Francis is seen in a wheelchair for the first time in public and begins to use one more frequently. The pope has been suffering from knee problems for months.
Pope Francis greeted the crowd in a wheelchair at the end of his general audience on Aug. 3, 2022. Daniel Ibanez/CNA
July 24-30 — In his first papal visit to Canada, Pope Francis apologizes for the harsh treatment of the indigenous Canadians, saying many Christians and members of the Catholic Church were complicit.
2023
Jan. 31-Feb. 5 — Pope Francis travels to the Democratic Republic of Congo and South Sudan. During his visit, the pope condemns political violence in the countries and promotes peace. He also participates in an ecumenical prayer service with Anglican Archbishop of Canterbury Justin Welby and Moderator of the Church of Scotland Iain Greenshields.
Pope Francis greets a young boy a Mass in Juba, South Sudan on Feb. 5, 2023. Vatican Media
March 29-April 1 — Pope Francis is hospitalized for a respiratory infection. During his stay at Rome’s Gemelli Hospital, he visits the pediatric cancer ward and baptizes a newborn baby.
April 5 — The pope appears in the Disney documentary “The Pope: Answers,” which is in Spanish, answering six “hot-button” issues from members of Gen Z from various backgrounds. The group discusses immigration, depression, abortion, clergy sexual and psychological abuse, transgenderism, pornography, and loss of faith.
April 28-30 — Pope Francis visits Hungary to meet with government officials, civil society members, bishops, priests, seminarians, Jesuits, consecrated men and women, and pastoral workers. He celebrates Mass on the final day of the trip in Kossuth Lajos Square.
Pope Francis stands on an altar erected outside the Parliament Building in Budapest’s Kossuth Lajos’ Square during a public outdoor Mass on April 30, 2023. Vatican Media
June 7 — The Vatican announces that Pope Francis will undergo abdominal surgery that afternoon under general anesthesia due to a hernia that is causing painful, recurring, and worsening symptoms. In his general audience that morning before the surgery, Francis says he intends to publish an apostolic letter on St. Thérèse of Lisieux, “patroness of the missions,” to mark the 150th anniversary of her birth.
June 15 — After successful surgery and a week of recovery, Pope Francis is released from Gemelli Hospital.
Aug. 2-6 — Pope Francis travels to Lisbon, Portugal, for World Youth Day 2023, taking place from Aug. 1-6. He meets with Church and civil leaders ahead of presiding at the welcoming Mass and Stations of the Cross. He also hears the confessions of several pilgrims. On Aug. 5, he visits the Shrine of Our Lady of Fátima, where he prays the rosary with young people with disabilities. That evening he presides over the vigil and on Sunday, Aug. 6, he celebrates the closing Mass, where he urges the 1.5 million young people present to “be not afraid,” echoing the words of the founder of World Youth Days, St. John Paul II.
Pope Francis waves at the crowd of 1.5 million people who attended the closing Mass of World Youth Day 2023 in Lisbon, Portugal on Aug. 6, 2023. Vatican Media.
Aug. 31-Sept. 4 — Pope Francis travels to Mongolia, the world’s most sparsely populated sovereign country. The trip makes Francis the first pope to visit the Asian country that shares a 2,880-mile border with China, its most significant economic partner. Mongolia has a population of about 1,300 Catholics in a country of more than 3 million people.
Pope Francis meets with local priests and religious of Mongolia, which includes only 25 priests (19 religious and six diocesan), 33 women religious, and one bishop — Cardinal Giorgio Marengo — in Ulaanbaatar’s Cathedral of Sts. Peter and Paul on Sept. 2, 2023. Credit: Vatican Media
Sept. 22-23 — On a two-day trip to Marseille, France, Pope Francis meets with local civil and religious leaders and participates in the Mediterranean Encounter, a gathering of some 120 young people of various creeds with bishops from 30 countries.
Pope Francis asks for a moment of silence at a memorial dedicated to sailors and migrants lost at sea on the first of a two-day visit to Marseille, France, Sept. 22, 2023. A Camargue cross, which comes from the Camargue area of France, represents the three theological virtues of faith, hope, and charity. The three tridents represent faith, the anchor represents hope, and the heart represents charity. Credit: Daniel Ibañez/CNA
Oct. 4-29 — The Vatican hosts the first of two monthlong global assemblies of the Synod on Synodality, initiated by Pope Francis in 2021 to enhance the communion, participation, and mission of the Church. Pope Francis celebrates the closing Mass of the synod at St. Peter’s Basilica on Oct. 29. The second and final global assembly will take place at the Vatican in October 2024.
Pope Francis at the Synod on Synodality’s closing Mass in St. Peter’s Basilica on Oct. 29, 2023. Vatican Media
Nov. 25 — Pope Francis visits the hospital briefly for precautionary testing after coming down with the flu earlier in the day. Although he still participates in scheduled activities, other officials read his prepared remarks. The Vatican on Nov. 28 cancels the pope’s planned Dec. 1–3 trip to Dubai for the COP28 climate conference, where he was scheduled to deliver a speech, due to his illness.
Dec. 18 — The Dicastery for the Doctrine of the Faith issues the declaration Fiducia Supplicans, which authorizes nonliturgical blessings for same-sex couples and couples in “irregular situations.” Various bishops from around the world voice both support for and criticism of the document.
2024
Jan. 4 — Amid widespread backlash to Fiducia Supplicans, Cardinal Victor Manuel Fernández, prefect of the Dicastery for the Doctrine of the Faith, publishes a five-page press release that refers to Fiducia Supplicans as “perennial doctrine” and underlines that pastoral blessings of couples in irregular situations should not be “an endorsement of the life led by those who request them.”
Jan. 14 — Pope Francis for the first time responds publicly to questions about Fiducia Supplicans in an interview on an Italian television show. The pope underlines that “the Lord blesses everyone” and that a blessing is an invitation to enter into a conversation “to see what the road is that the Lord proposes to them.”
Feb. 11 — In a ceremony attended by Argentine president Javier Milei, Pope Francis canonizes María Antonia of St. Joseph — known affectionately in the pope’s home country as “Mama Antula” — in a Mass at St. Peter’s Basilica. The president and the former archbishop of Buenos Aires embrace after the ceremony. Pope Francis, who has not returned to his homeland since becoming pope in 2013, has said he wants to visit Argentina in the second half of this year.
Pope Francis meets with Argentina President Javier Milei in a private audience on Feb. 12, 2024, at the Vatican. Credit: Vatican Media
Feb. 28 — After canceling audiences the previous Saturday and having an aide read his prepared remarks at his Wednesday audience due to a “mild flu,” Pope Francis visits the hospital for diagnostic tests but returns to the Vatican afterward.
March 2 — Despite having an aide read his speech “because of bronchitis,” the pope presides over the inauguration of the 95th Judicial Year of the Vatican City State and maintains a full schedule.
March 13 — Pope Francis celebrates 11 years as Supreme Pontiff of the Roman Catholic Church.
The whole aspect of censors needs to be looked at especially the automatic enactment of excommunication! What if a priest who accidentally or joking makes a similar reference? What about clergy who are terrified this has happened to them. WHAT ABOUT MERCY? Does discussion about the ssm blessing warrant a similar attack?
For the record, he was wrong about what he said but there should have been a formal warning and if that isn’t hedded then excommunication be enacted. Personally, I feel automatic censors should be scrapped or limited with formal warnings.
“According to a local paper in Livorno, the bishop met with Guidetti before Christmas to discuss his dissent and proceeded with the official excommunication decree after the priest’s public act of schism on Dec. 31.”
This was not a problem of the bishop not understanding the priest. The priest had moved out to join up with other sedevacantists and left the keys to the Church with a laywoman for the bishop to find. This wasn’t a priest who just let his mouth get the better of him.
Automatic excommunication doesn’t incur a punishment until the local ordinary imposes it. Given the number of heterodox priests we have, there’s probably a shortage of such impositions.
Thanks Amanda for the clarification! I can see that in the light of what you have said, the bishop did reach out only to get rejected! Prayers for all concerned,
Great additional information, Amanda. This needs to be in the original CWR article, because I can see a lot of people getting mislead and getting riled up perhaps unnecessarily.
Not an accident or joke. And, about “automatic censors” or censures (?), the article reports that a formal warning was in fact given: “According to a local paper in Livorno, the bishop met with Guidetti before Christmas to discuss his dissent and proceeded with the official excommunication decree after the priest’s public act of schism on Dec. 31.”
Given a presumably honest bind of conscience, rather than silently discerning or even waiting in silence, the pastor then crossed the line by going very public, and to a captive audience within the Church. He knew the consequences. Yes?
The cleverer case is Bishop Batzing & Co. who couch their dissent as still always wanting to be “Catholic but in a different way.” This, for example, after the Magisterium (with foresight!) has spoken clearly about natural law and about moral absolutes. Three extracts from Veritatis Splendor (1993):
“The relationship between faith and morality shines forth with all its brilliance in the UNCONDITIONAL RESPECT DUE TO THE INSISTENT DEMANDS OF THE PERSONAL DIGNITY OF EVERY MAN [italics], demands protected by those moral norms which prohibit WITHOUT EXCEPTION [caps added] actions which are intrinsically evil” (n. 90).
“This is the first time, in fact, that the Magisterium of the Church [!] has set forth in detail the fundamental elements of this [‘moral’] teaching, and presented the principles for the pastoral discernment…” (n. 115).
And, ““The Church is no way the author or the arbiter of this [‘moral’] norm” (n. 95).
Excommunicated by Bergoglio? Two possibilities:
1) Bergoglio is note the pope. If so excommunication is note valid.
2) Francisco is the Pope. If so Bergoglio has declared that you don’t need to be catholic to be saved.
One way or amother, no problema.
This is the other kind of scandal committed via Fiducia Supplicans. On the one hand are all the people who read it and decide that sodomy is OK now and gay marriages are around the corner. On the other hand are all the people who read it, are horrified, and flee the Church. Both totally predictable from reading the text with half an ounce of common sense.
I wonder what might happen to a member of the laity who said the same thing?
Juxtapose this against the evil misdeeds of Rev. Rupnick (former S.J) who coerced nuns under his influence to have sex with him and then forgave the penitent nun of her fornication with him in the Sacrament of Penance. What were his consequences? Oh, he became assigned to a bishop in Slovenia when he was kicked out of the Jesuits but reportedly is still working in Rome as a priest and producing “Church art.” But….let anyone say anything about dear old Bergoglio and he or she gets excomnunicated from the Church. George Bergoglio is laughable.
I wasn’t excusing either one from culpability. I was simply comparing the consequences of each act. But, since you raised the issue, I’d have to say that Rupnick’s behavior was more egresiously offensive. If you don’t agree, I’d suggest you ask the nun(s) he violated.
Deacon Edward: Both actions are wrong for different reasons. You know that. Please don’t use silly rhetoric.
Andrew, once again I state that I am addressing myself to the CONSEQUENCES of the acts.
Keep making comments like you did and you will find out about being a layperson. If you’re going to call out the Holy Father by his given name (and it’s Jorge, by the way, not George), then you are basically saying he is not the Pope of Rome. If you are a Latin Rite deacon, I suggest you drop the title the next time you post. You give clergy a bad name.
Mr. Moon, that is your opinion. And, for your information, I wholeheartedly agree that Bergoglio is the Pope (and legitimately so). So don’t try to bait me. I just happen to think he’s a lousy Pope.
“What if a priest who accidentally or joking makes a similar reference?” INTENT. If he aknowledges it was a JOKE then the offense is not an actual offense. A priest is in service to the Church and the Church is led by the Pope. You can’t attack the ceo.
The head of the Church is Christ, and nearly everyone in the Church attacks Him on a regular basis without getting kicked out. Jesus is meek and humble of heart.
The early Church Fathers tended to recognize sins, even mortal sins, as not removing you from the Church. But they also recognized heresy and schism as separating you from the Church. Rejecting the Faith by heresy or rejecting the Church by schism makes you no longer Catholic (although obviously this is solved by Confession, not by re-baptism).
Amanda: Sorry to say, but the early Church booted laity and clergy for all sorts of things. Things that today would be considered very small (for example, critiquing a secular ruler could get one excommunicated – Canon 84). Check out the Apostolic Canons from the 3rd century as a very early example of the many rules that could get one deposed and/or excommunicated.
Canon 55 might apply to the above article: If any of the clergy insult the bishop, let him be deposed: for you shall not speak evil of the ruler of your people.
I’m aware. I was speaking of the sins that the Fathers would consider to put you outside the Church, regardless of whether explicit excommunication followed. A heretic or schismatic is de facto not Catholic, regardless of whether a bishop has declared them excommunicate.
The disciplinary canons of 3rd century councils do not apply in the present day.
I know they don’t apply today. I was commenting on your assertion that the early Church Father’s were more lenient. They weren’t. A whole bunch of things could get you excommunicated or deposed and the penances to get back were long.
I wouldn’t say they were more lenient in terms of dishing out punishment, no. And St. Paul had a man shunned for sleeping with his father’s wife, which makes one wonder what he would do with the likes of Rupnik or McCarrick.
But the Fathers seem to have been pretty settled that, even entirely absent any actual punishment, heresy and schism put you outside the Church. Excommunication was a punishment by removal of the spiritual benefits of Catholicism, treated as a tax collector or sinner. Mortal sin meant you were spiritually dead. Heresy or schism meant you weren’t Catholic, not even a bad Catholic or a severely punished Catholic or a spiritually dead Catholic.
To not speak evil of an evil man who aids and abets crimes against humanity like Francis, is to be a coward of a man. As a material heretic, I submit he has forfeited the papacy. If this excommunicates me, so be it. At my final accounting, I will not be standing before Francis or Fernandez.
Many thanks, dear Edward J Baker. A sizeable proportion of informed, faithful Catholics are with you. Like Fr Ramon Guidetti, our focus is on Jesus, Mary, & Joseph & the mighty assembly of faithful saints & martyrs. It is they who will judge those who have been faithful to The Word of God.
Maybe some resourceful Catholics will initiate a holy order (with scapulae?) – perhaps called NEUA (‘non e un accessorio’) to distance ourselves, like Fr Ramon wanted to, from the errors of the current leaders.
‘NEUA’ might solve the conundrum of how faithful, ordinary Catholics, both clergy & lay, can spiritually distance themselves from the heinous errors currently emanating from Rome.
“We are fully authentically Catholic; but not accessories of bad leaders!”
Ever trying my best to love & follow The Lamb; blessings from marty
Well, at least he did not claim Pope Francis is a lizard person.
Terrible occurrence. Citing canon 751 it seems an excommunication a jure, by the law rather than an ab hominem sentence. Hope it can be resolved. Apparently the timing is related to the issuance of Fiducia supplicans.
Criticism of a Roman Pontiff from the pulpit should not reach the level of repudiating his papacy. Whether some believe Francis is not, the fact is he’s acclaimed by the Church as pontiff. Both Benedict and John Paul would agree with that assessment whether there was a question of an unlawful election. No one has presented indisputable evidence. Even if there were now found it would be a moot issue. Criticism couched in the form of brotherly correction is permissible.
Fr Thomas Weinandy’s OFM Cap letter of correction to Pope Francis was quite harsh and accusatory although it was in the form of an appeal. Clergy are more strictly bound than laity, although no one’s immune.
Many thanks, dear Fr Peter, for your loving of Truth above powerful men.
One now winces every time PF, in bright white robes, mouths Gospel truths that his actions prove he actually despises.
Matthew 23:27-28 – “Alas for you, scribes & Pharisees, you hypocrites. You who are like whitewashed tombs that look handsome on the outside . . . you appear to people from the outside like good honest men, but inside you are full of hypocrisy & lawlessness.”
Yet, let’s believe the malodors in Rome, by God’s overcoming Grace, will activate millions of normally dormant Catholics to decide to show what it really means to be a sincere lover of & follower of King Jesus Christ.
Ever seeking to love & obey Jesus, our LORD; blessings from marty
The same ‘bully boy’ excommunication tactic was used by Australian Catholic hierarchs against another truth teller – now known as Saint Mary of the Cross Mackillop, who is our ONLY Aussie Saint and, by the grace of Jesus Christ, a mighty intercessor!
Saint Mary of the Cross MacKillop, please pray for Father Ramon Guidetti.
It seems like a concern of yours but I do not live my life motivated by the approval of people I do not even know. I don’t look for “upvotes” in life; I look to say what I believe to be true. I tend to give respect to those who I perceive to live with integrity.
If this priest actually believes these things then he is clearly not in communion with the Universal Pastor of the Church and as such no longer in communion with the Church that the Pope leads. It’s kind of a no brainer that he is automatically excommunicated.
Thank you Andrew, you’re spot-on. Even though Francis is pretty liberal, he’s still our Pope. That fact must be recognized by all bishops and priests who have taken their vows of poverty, chastity, and obedience as servants of the One True Church.
Tbe German Bishops, along with Fr James Martin, can crawl back into their pathetic hole of heresy, but so can Fr Altman and Fr Ramon Guidetti for that matter.
YET: if Fr Ramon Guidetti is a faithful Catholic in every way yet is honestly convinced that the current incumbent of The Chair of Peter is in many ways not a faithful Catholic, and, like so many of us is deeply scandalized by non-Catholic teachings by him & his clique, the good priest is just, before Christ, to question the legitimacy of the papacy of Jeorge Bergoglio.
If, historically, Jeorge proves to have been the prophesied ‘Man of Sin’ – he is by far the best candidate ever – those who supported his papacy & those who excommunicate truth-teller faithful will look pretty silly! Don’t you think?
Ever following King Jesus Christ; love & blessings from marty
If those who are honestly convinced that the Pope isn’t the Pope are to receive sympathy, than I don’t think there’s room to laugh at those who honestly think he is, albeit a bad one, even in a hypothetical future where they are proved wrong.
Thanks, dear Amanda. But no one is laughing at the current debacle.
This article & all our comments hinge on what is meant by ‘a bad pope’. ‘Bad’ covers possibilities ranging from merely tardy to maliciously malfeasant to a Christ-defying demon counterfeiting as an angel of light.
The majority of good Catholics simply can’t believe that the processes of our lovely Church could allow someone really bad to get into leadership. To protect our sanity, too many of us aimlessly repeat: “The pope is the pope!”
Is their hope? YES! Let all the faithful thank God that our obedience to Christ is the rock that cannot be shaken (Matthew 7:24).
Ever in the grace & mercy of King Jesus Christ; love & blessings from marty
Bishop Simone Giusti informed his diocese that Catholics are not to attend any Masses offered by the excommunicated priest or they would also “incur the very serious penalty of excommunication.”
Where in canon law does it hold that the laity would suffer such a penalty under those circumstances?
It doesn’t, unless you take attendance at such a Mass as clear and sufficient evidence of schism rather than, say, misplaced loyalty to one’s priest or anger at the Pope whom you agree is the Pope. Makes you wonder what he’d do with someone regularly attending Protestant services…
I’m pretty sure he’d have to declare those excommunications. You can’t be automatically excommunicated outside of what is specified in canon law, and while schism is specified, attending a non-Catholic Mass, or not attending a Catholic Mass, isn’t.
Fr. James Altman’s bishop has been extraordinary patient and charitable considering the priest’s prolonged behavior compared to this Italian priest’s one homily. Perhaps there is a lot more that we don’t know about. May God bless them all.
So he now has an “irregular” relationship with the Church? Just give him an impromptu blessing a la Fiducia Supplicans and everything is back to a-OK, eh, Tucho?
Bullseye! When you think about it, the Church is inundated with irregular relationships of all sorts. For instance, anyone who associates with and supports Joe Biden is in a very irregular relationship and would deserve a blessing from his parish priest.
(A) Let’s not lose sight of the fact that, with the exception of a few hot-tempered clergy, like Guidetti, all priests, bishops, cardinals, and religious superiors are afraid of Francis—including the Bishop Giusti. You can diddle boys or girls, and Francis will look the other way, but call out Francis, and it is off with your head, and they’ll label you schismatic. (B) That being said, I disagree with Guidetti on one point: I think Francis is pope. (C) But it’s hard to disagree with Guidetti on his other complaints: that Francis is a Jesuit, who talks like a Freemason, and who is in some ways attempting to usurp the traditions of the Church. Seems all rather obvious to me.
Well put, dear Richard Cross: “Francis is a Jesuit, who talks like a Freemason, and who is in some ways attempting to usurp the traditions of the Church. Seems all rather obvious to me.”
Only, Catholics au fait with The New Testament & The Catechism of the Catholic Church consider Francis’ usurping of our traditions to include flagrant anti-Apostolic disobedience to the clear instructions of our LORD Jesus Christ. Hence, the conclusion that he is not qualified to run a Sunday School class let alone Christ’s Church.
Ever striving to hear & follow The Lamb; love & blessings from marty
Deacon Peitler again – I agree that popularity and support for our viewpoints are not, in themselves, worthy motives. But respect and charity toward others (even when we think they deserve them) are.
Again, there is no disrespect or lack of charity in his responses. That is a false accusation. In supporting Francis, you are defending the indefensible.
But one still must ask whether Francis is in communion with his predecessors and the constant teachings that they’ve upheld. He is indeed the Pope, he simply doesn’t conduct himself as one.
What he deserved was an open & charitable mind on the part of his superiors – in the same spirit as synodality! Fr Ramon deserved to be listened to and to have his major objections addressed in detail by PF, as Jesus Christ himself has taught us.
Fr Ramon, with millions of other faithful Catholics, is deeply troubled by PF’s betrayal of our beloved Chinese Catholic brothers & sisters, by his erecting pagan idols in Rome, by his laxity in prosecuting clergy who have sexually abused children & vulnerable adults, by his unwillingness to speak clearly about events in Ukraine and Palestine, by his giving Holy Communion to public advocates of infanticide, by his fraternizing with producers of pornography, by his malice towards those who see matters differently to him, by his manipulation of the college of cardinals & the curial offices in Rome, by his promoting of friends to positions far above their talent or experience, by his obstinate & subtle advocacy for homosexuality & adultery, by his swinging incompetence in so many areas, AND by the evidence-based suspicion that his election to the papacy was engineered in ways that should, in all justice, automatically bar him from that office. And there’s a lot more!
As the leader of our enormous Church, PF should have set an example in transparency and accountability not in lashing out at those who are legitimately making their complaints known. His is an atrocious example. May there never be such a pope again.
This was likely not a wise move by this priest. On the other hand I was not aware that commenting about the legitimacy of a pope was an offense for which a priest could be excommunicated.
Imagine being a priest who was ordained promising blind obedience to their church superiors. Then imagine you see a pope going off the rails on a consistent basis saying and doing things in direct contradiction of everything you have been taught or known about church theology and law. Where, as a priest, does that leave you?? How do you square your vow to obey upper churchmen with unknown intent, and what your own conscience tells you is wrong?? Maybe you do what this priest did and express yourself to the sheep YOU are responsible for shepherding. Perhaps not a smart tactical move but one which you feel morally obligated to express.
Let us all pray the next pope is more orthodox, has a better grasp of Catholic theology, and ALSO has thicker skin. What would Jesus do? Probably NOT excommunicate a priest who is making his distress at the direction of the church publicly known.
Judas was allowed at the Last Supper, and given Holy Communion, because his sin was not manifest. Only Jesus knew.
Even present canon law requires that a person in mortal sin be given Holy Communion even if the priest is aware of it – if the sin is not manifest or public. Canon law requires that the person be denied if it is manifest. You’ll notice Jesus didn’t invite the Sanhedrin to the Last Supper.
No priest promises blind obedience to his superior. Even religious, who take actual vows of obedience, do not agree to blind obedience. All obedience to a superior is ordered toward obedience to Christ, and where the superior orders things contrary to Christ, you obey Christ. That doesn’t mean your superior is automatically deposed or must have been invalidly elected, or that you are henceforth relieved of obedience.
The Pope going off the rails doesn’t mean he isn’t Pope. The office would be useless if we had to be forever ascertaining whether a Pope was validly elected based on whether his behavior was atrocious, or whether his non-infallible statements were clear, cogent, and orthodox.
I don’t know of any way in which this priest was being ordered to do something contrary to his conscience, unless you count acknowledging Francis as Pope while offering Mass. He wasn’t excommunicated for giving an explainer on FS that rejected it, or for refusing to bless a same-sex couple.
I have a lot of sympathy for this priest being scandalized by the Pope and the cardinals, but he was wrong, schismatic, and scandalous. And now no Pope or bishop, no matter how gentle and generous, can lift his excommunication without his repentance.
Dear Amanda, well-argued but divorced from two realities.
First, that many lower order clerics live in terror of hierarchs who can abolish their Church positions & reduce them to impoverished, homeless, unskilled has-beens. Only very courageous persons (such as Saint Mary of the Cross MacKillop) can exercise the freedom to dissent that you say is theirs.
Second: Fr Ramon Guidetti was making public his refusal to be an ACCOMPLICE of the grievous offences of PF & entourage against Christ Jesus, His Blessed Mother Mary, and numerous faithful saints & martyrs (i.e. THE CHURCH sensu strictum). His ‘excommunication’ is unarguably null & voided by those circumstances (even on your own criteria).
Incidentally, when excommunicated & thrown out on the street by the Catholic hierarchy, Saint Mary Mackillop and her wonderful Catholic nuns were cared for by Jewish and by Presbyterian Australians.
Plenty for us Catholics to think about, if we truly face the injustices of these situations.
Always striving to hear & follow Jesus Christ; love & blessings from marty
They do indeed promise total obedience. I will assume the proper response at their ordination to the question of their obedience is “YES”.Yes is not a conditional response. Men being ordained do not respond that they will obey, “In so far as conscience allows me”. They say yes. Period.
If you follow the Catholic press at all you must be aware that Francis has given any number of statements which have been of major concern to the Catholic public. It is exactly because he has wandered far from Catholic orthodoxy that many catholics view the pope with concern.. The recent firing of conservative catholic clerics and his recent paper giving an “OK” to blessing those in gay relationships are but two among MANY reasons why this Pope has lost credibility.
At ordination, I heard 2 new priests questioned by our Archbishop: “Will you respect & obey me and my successors?” I couldn’t hear their replies. Was praying that they would say: “I will respect & obey you, dear Archbishop, in accord with the instructions of our King Jesus Christ in The New Testament and in accord with the wisdom of our Catholic Saints & Elders in The Catechism of the Catholic Church.”
Commenters are losing focus. Those who question this Pope’s legitimacy do not do so based on their view of his performance. I believe it harkens back to the resignation of Pope Benedict–the messiness and lack of clarity behind it. The fact that the papal approach and Vatican leadership took a major left turn with Pope Francis feeds the fuel for those who question whether Pope Benedict was pushed out.
Mom of 3,
I think there’s been a lot of unanswered questions ever since Pope Benedict resigned and conspiracy theories often have a grain of truth behind them. It’s the conflation of that which becomes a problem and a tool to cause division.
The Body of Christ needs to stick together and we should be faithful and vigilant, watching for any attempt to break us apart.
Mr. Ramon Guidetti is correct, so far as his words are concerned. But he is an advocate of Benevacantism. I know that Benevacantism is incorrect.
What is most important to any Catholic is making sure that he is following the pope, and not an antipope. It is a fact that at one point there were three people claiming to be the pope.
The whole aspect of censors needs to be looked at especially the automatic enactment of excommunication! What if a priest who accidentally or joking makes a similar reference? What about clergy who are terrified this has happened to them. WHAT ABOUT MERCY? Does discussion about the ssm blessing warrant a similar attack?
For the record, he was wrong about what he said but there should have been a formal warning and if that isn’t hedded then excommunication be enacted. Personally, I feel automatic censors should be scrapped or limited with formal warnings.
“According to a local paper in Livorno, the bishop met with Guidetti before Christmas to discuss his dissent and proceeded with the official excommunication decree after the priest’s public act of schism on Dec. 31.”
This was not a problem of the bishop not understanding the priest. The priest had moved out to join up with other sedevacantists and left the keys to the Church with a laywoman for the bishop to find. This wasn’t a priest who just let his mouth get the better of him.
Automatic excommunication doesn’t incur a punishment until the local ordinary imposes it. Given the number of heterodox priests we have, there’s probably a shortage of such impositions.
Thanks Amanda for the clarification! I can see that in the light of what you have said, the bishop did reach out only to get rejected! Prayers for all concerned,
Great additional information, Amanda. This needs to be in the original CWR article, because I can see a lot of people getting mislead and getting riled up perhaps unnecessarily.
Thank you, Amanda.
Not an accident or joke. And, about “automatic censors” or censures (?), the article reports that a formal warning was in fact given: “According to a local paper in Livorno, the bishop met with Guidetti before Christmas to discuss his dissent and proceeded with the official excommunication decree after the priest’s public act of schism on Dec. 31.”
Given a presumably honest bind of conscience, rather than silently discerning or even waiting in silence, the pastor then crossed the line by going very public, and to a captive audience within the Church. He knew the consequences. Yes?
The cleverer case is Bishop Batzing & Co. who couch their dissent as still always wanting to be “Catholic but in a different way.” This, for example, after the Magisterium (with foresight!) has spoken clearly about natural law and about moral absolutes. Three extracts from Veritatis Splendor (1993):
“The relationship between faith and morality shines forth with all its brilliance in the UNCONDITIONAL RESPECT DUE TO THE INSISTENT DEMANDS OF THE PERSONAL DIGNITY OF EVERY MAN [italics], demands protected by those moral norms which prohibit WITHOUT EXCEPTION [caps added] actions which are intrinsically evil” (n. 90).
“This is the first time, in fact, that the Magisterium of the Church [!] has set forth in detail the fundamental elements of this [‘moral’] teaching, and presented the principles for the pastoral discernment…” (n. 115).
And, ““The Church is no way the author or the arbiter of this [‘moral’] norm” (n. 95).
What a blessed mess!
Excommunicated by Bergoglio? Two possibilities:
1) Bergoglio is note the pope. If so excommunication is note valid.
2) Francisco is the Pope. If so Bergoglio has declared that you don’t need to be catholic to be saved.
One way or amother, no problema.
This might get sticky but it would be interesting to know what the basis was for this priest’s conclusion.
This is the other kind of scandal committed via Fiducia Supplicans. On the one hand are all the people who read it and decide that sodomy is OK now and gay marriages are around the corner. On the other hand are all the people who read it, are horrified, and flee the Church. Both totally predictable from reading the text with half an ounce of common sense.
I wonder what might happen to a member of the laity who said the same thing?
Juxtapose this against the evil misdeeds of Rev. Rupnick (former S.J) who coerced nuns under his influence to have sex with him and then forgave the penitent nun of her fornication with him in the Sacrament of Penance. What were his consequences? Oh, he became assigned to a bishop in Slovenia when he was kicked out of the Jesuits but reportedly is still working in Rome as a priest and producing “Church art.” But….let anyone say anything about dear old Bergoglio and he or she gets excomnunicated from the Church. George Bergoglio is laughable.
I’m sure you’ve heard the saying: Two wrongs don’t make a right?
I wasn’t excusing either one from culpability. I was simply comparing the consequences of each act. But, since you raised the issue, I’d have to say that Rupnick’s behavior was more egresiously offensive. If you don’t agree, I’d suggest you ask the nun(s) he violated.
Deacon Edward: Both actions are wrong for different reasons. You know that. Please don’t use silly rhetoric.
Andrew, once again I state that I am addressing myself to the CONSEQUENCES of the acts.
Keep making comments like you did and you will find out about being a layperson. If you’re going to call out the Holy Father by his given name (and it’s Jorge, by the way, not George), then you are basically saying he is not the Pope of Rome. If you are a Latin Rite deacon, I suggest you drop the title the next time you post. You give clergy a bad name.
Mr. Moon, that is your opinion. And, for your information, I wholeheartedly agree that Bergoglio is the Pope (and legitimately so). So don’t try to bait me. I just happen to think he’s a lousy Pope.
“What if a priest who accidentally or joking makes a similar reference?” INTENT. If he aknowledges it was a JOKE then the offense is not an actual offense. A priest is in service to the Church and the Church is led by the Pope. You can’t attack the ceo.
The head of the Church is Christ, and nearly everyone in the Church attacks Him on a regular basis without getting kicked out. Jesus is meek and humble of heart.
The early Church Fathers tended to recognize sins, even mortal sins, as not removing you from the Church. But they also recognized heresy and schism as separating you from the Church. Rejecting the Faith by heresy or rejecting the Church by schism makes you no longer Catholic (although obviously this is solved by Confession, not by re-baptism).
Amanda: Sorry to say, but the early Church booted laity and clergy for all sorts of things. Things that today would be considered very small (for example, critiquing a secular ruler could get one excommunicated – Canon 84). Check out the Apostolic Canons from the 3rd century as a very early example of the many rules that could get one deposed and/or excommunicated.
Canon 55 might apply to the above article: If any of the clergy insult the bishop, let him be deposed: for you shall not speak evil of the ruler of your people.
I’m aware. I was speaking of the sins that the Fathers would consider to put you outside the Church, regardless of whether explicit excommunication followed. A heretic or schismatic is de facto not Catholic, regardless of whether a bishop has declared them excommunicate.
The disciplinary canons of 3rd century councils do not apply in the present day.
I know they don’t apply today. I was commenting on your assertion that the early Church Father’s were more lenient. They weren’t. A whole bunch of things could get you excommunicated or deposed and the penances to get back were long.
I wouldn’t say they were more lenient in terms of dishing out punishment, no. And St. Paul had a man shunned for sleeping with his father’s wife, which makes one wonder what he would do with the likes of Rupnik or McCarrick.
But the Fathers seem to have been pretty settled that, even entirely absent any actual punishment, heresy and schism put you outside the Church. Excommunication was a punishment by removal of the spiritual benefits of Catholicism, treated as a tax collector or sinner. Mortal sin meant you were spiritually dead. Heresy or schism meant you weren’t Catholic, not even a bad Catholic or a severely punished Catholic or a spiritually dead Catholic.
To not speak evil of an evil man who aids and abets crimes against humanity like Francis, is to be a coward of a man. As a material heretic, I submit he has forfeited the papacy. If this excommunicates me, so be it. At my final accounting, I will not be standing before Francis or Fernandez.
Many thanks, dear Edward J Baker. A sizeable proportion of informed, faithful Catholics are with you. Like Fr Ramon Guidetti, our focus is on Jesus, Mary, & Joseph & the mighty assembly of faithful saints & martyrs. It is they who will judge those who have been faithful to The Word of God.
Maybe some resourceful Catholics will initiate a holy order (with scapulae?) – perhaps called NEUA (‘non e un accessorio’) to distance ourselves, like Fr Ramon wanted to, from the errors of the current leaders.
‘NEUA’ might solve the conundrum of how faithful, ordinary Catholics, both clergy & lay, can spiritually distance themselves from the heinous errors currently emanating from Rome.
“We are fully authentically Catholic; but not accessories of bad leaders!”
Ever trying my best to love & follow The Lamb; blessings from marty
Well, at least he did not claim Pope Francis is a lizard person.
Terrible occurrence. Citing canon 751 it seems an excommunication a jure, by the law rather than an ab hominem sentence. Hope it can be resolved. Apparently the timing is related to the issuance of Fiducia supplicans.
Criticism of a Roman Pontiff from the pulpit should not reach the level of repudiating his papacy. Whether some believe Francis is not, the fact is he’s acclaimed by the Church as pontiff. Both Benedict and John Paul would agree with that assessment whether there was a question of an unlawful election. No one has presented indisputable evidence. Even if there were now found it would be a moot issue. Criticism couched in the form of brotherly correction is permissible.
Fr Thomas Weinandy’s OFM Cap letter of correction to Pope Francis was quite harsh and accusatory although it was in the form of an appeal. Clergy are more strictly bound than laity, although no one’s immune.
“Clergy are more strictly bound than laity,”
And this member of the laity wants to know why Theodore McCarrick was never excommunicated.
Canon law and justice is one thing, just application is another. We’ve seen that unjust pattern since 2013.
Many thanks, dear Fr Peter, for your loving of Truth above powerful men.
One now winces every time PF, in bright white robes, mouths Gospel truths that his actions prove he actually despises.
Matthew 23:27-28 – “Alas for you, scribes & Pharisees, you hypocrites. You who are like whitewashed tombs that look handsome on the outside . . . you appear to people from the outside like good honest men, but inside you are full of hypocrisy & lawlessness.”
Yet, let’s believe the malodors in Rome, by God’s overcoming Grace, will activate millions of normally dormant Catholics to decide to show what it really means to be a sincere lover of & follower of King Jesus Christ.
Ever seeking to love & obey Jesus, our LORD; blessings from marty
The same ‘bully boy’ excommunication tactic was used by Australian Catholic hierarchs against another truth teller – now known as Saint Mary of the Cross Mackillop, who is our ONLY Aussie Saint and, by the grace of Jesus Christ, a mighty intercessor!
Saint Mary of the Cross MacKillop, please pray for Father Ramon Guidetti.
Deacon Peitler – I think you would win more support for your views if you ceased your disrespectful naming of Pope Francis.
Just sayin’.
It seems like a concern of yours but I do not live my life motivated by the approval of people I do not even know. I don’t look for “upvotes” in life; I look to say what I believe to be true. I tend to give respect to those who I perceive to live with integrity.
If this priest actually believes these things then he is clearly not in communion with the Universal Pastor of the Church and as such no longer in communion with the Church that the Pope leads. It’s kind of a no brainer that he is automatically excommunicated.
Thank you Andrew, you’re spot-on. Even though Francis is pretty liberal, he’s still our Pope. That fact must be recognized by all bishops and priests who have taken their vows of poverty, chastity, and obedience as servants of the One True Church.
Tbe German Bishops, along with Fr James Martin, can crawl back into their pathetic hole of heresy, but so can Fr Altman and Fr Ramon Guidetti for that matter.
With the exception that Fr. Martin and those like him will not be excommunicated, eh?
How easy is that dear Andrew . . !
YET: if Fr Ramon Guidetti is a faithful Catholic in every way yet is honestly convinced that the current incumbent of The Chair of Peter is in many ways not a faithful Catholic, and, like so many of us is deeply scandalized by non-Catholic teachings by him & his clique, the good priest is just, before Christ, to question the legitimacy of the papacy of Jeorge Bergoglio.
If, historically, Jeorge proves to have been the prophesied ‘Man of Sin’ – he is by far the best candidate ever – those who supported his papacy & those who excommunicate truth-teller faithful will look pretty silly! Don’t you think?
Ever following King Jesus Christ; love & blessings from marty
If those who are honestly convinced that the Pope isn’t the Pope are to receive sympathy, than I don’t think there’s room to laugh at those who honestly think he is, albeit a bad one, even in a hypothetical future where they are proved wrong.
Thanks, dear Amanda. But no one is laughing at the current debacle.
This article & all our comments hinge on what is meant by ‘a bad pope’. ‘Bad’ covers possibilities ranging from merely tardy to maliciously malfeasant to a Christ-defying demon counterfeiting as an angel of light.
The majority of good Catholics simply can’t believe that the processes of our lovely Church could allow someone really bad to get into leadership. To protect our sanity, too many of us aimlessly repeat: “The pope is the pope!”
Is their hope? YES! Let all the faithful thank God that our obedience to Christ is the rock that cannot be shaken (Matthew 7:24).
Ever in the grace & mercy of King Jesus Christ; love & blessings from marty
yet financial and sexual sins merit what?
the Church has bigger problems than what this priest said/proclaimed
Bishop Simone Giusti informed his diocese that Catholics are not to attend any Masses offered by the excommunicated priest or they would also “incur the very serious penalty of excommunication.”
Where in canon law does it hold that the laity would suffer such a penalty under those circumstances?
It doesn’t, unless you take attendance at such a Mass as clear and sufficient evidence of schism rather than, say, misplaced loyalty to one’s priest or anger at the Pope whom you agree is the Pope. Makes you wonder what he’d do with someone regularly attending Protestant services…
I’m pretty sure he’d have to declare those excommunications. You can’t be automatically excommunicated outside of what is specified in canon law, and while schism is specified, attending a non-Catholic Mass, or not attending a Catholic Mass, isn’t.
Fr. James Altman’s bishop has been extraordinary patient and charitable considering the priest’s prolonged behavior compared to this Italian priest’s one homily. Perhaps there is a lot more that we don’t know about. May God bless them all.
So he now has an “irregular” relationship with the Church? Just give him an impromptu blessing a la Fiducia Supplicans and everything is back to a-OK, eh, Tucho?
Bullseye! When you think about it, the Church is inundated with irregular relationships of all sorts. For instance, anyone who associates with and supports Joe Biden is in a very irregular relationship and would deserve a blessing from his parish priest.
(A) Let’s not lose sight of the fact that, with the exception of a few hot-tempered clergy, like Guidetti, all priests, bishops, cardinals, and religious superiors are afraid of Francis—including the Bishop Giusti. You can diddle boys or girls, and Francis will look the other way, but call out Francis, and it is off with your head, and they’ll label you schismatic. (B) That being said, I disagree with Guidetti on one point: I think Francis is pope. (C) But it’s hard to disagree with Guidetti on his other complaints: that Francis is a Jesuit, who talks like a Freemason, and who is in some ways attempting to usurp the traditions of the Church. Seems all rather obvious to me.
Well put, dear Richard Cross: “Francis is a Jesuit, who talks like a Freemason, and who is in some ways attempting to usurp the traditions of the Church. Seems all rather obvious to me.”
Only, Catholics au fait with The New Testament & The Catechism of the Catholic Church consider Francis’ usurping of our traditions to include flagrant anti-Apostolic disobedience to the clear instructions of our LORD Jesus Christ. Hence, the conclusion that he is not qualified to run a Sunday School class let alone Christ’s Church.
Ever striving to hear & follow The Lamb; love & blessings from marty
Deacon Peitler again – I agree that popularity and support for our viewpoints are not, in themselves, worthy motives. But respect and charity toward others (even when we think they deserve them) are.
Again, there is no disrespect or lack of charity in his responses. That is a false accusation. In supporting Francis, you are defending the indefensible.
Correction – even when we think they don’t deserve them.
He said Francis is not the Pope and meant it. Thus he is refusing submission and communion with the Chair of Peter.
He got what he deserved. Granted it is fair to complain Fr. Martin should get what he deserves too but that is neither here nor there.
But one still must ask whether Francis is in communion with his predecessors and the constant teachings that they’ve upheld. He is indeed the Pope, he simply doesn’t conduct himself as one.
Dear ‘Jim the Scott’: “He got what he deserved.”
What he deserved was an open & charitable mind on the part of his superiors – in the same spirit as synodality! Fr Ramon deserved to be listened to and to have his major objections addressed in detail by PF, as Jesus Christ himself has taught us.
Fr Ramon, with millions of other faithful Catholics, is deeply troubled by PF’s betrayal of our beloved Chinese Catholic brothers & sisters, by his erecting pagan idols in Rome, by his laxity in prosecuting clergy who have sexually abused children & vulnerable adults, by his unwillingness to speak clearly about events in Ukraine and Palestine, by his giving Holy Communion to public advocates of infanticide, by his fraternizing with producers of pornography, by his malice towards those who see matters differently to him, by his manipulation of the college of cardinals & the curial offices in Rome, by his promoting of friends to positions far above their talent or experience, by his obstinate & subtle advocacy for homosexuality & adultery, by his swinging incompetence in so many areas, AND by the evidence-based suspicion that his election to the papacy was engineered in ways that should, in all justice, automatically bar him from that office. And there’s a lot more!
As the leader of our enormous Church, PF should have set an example in transparency and accountability not in lashing out at those who are legitimately making their complaints known. His is an atrocious example. May there never be such a pope again.
This was likely not a wise move by this priest. On the other hand I was not aware that commenting about the legitimacy of a pope was an offense for which a priest could be excommunicated.
Imagine being a priest who was ordained promising blind obedience to their church superiors. Then imagine you see a pope going off the rails on a consistent basis saying and doing things in direct contradiction of everything you have been taught or known about church theology and law. Where, as a priest, does that leave you?? How do you square your vow to obey upper churchmen with unknown intent, and what your own conscience tells you is wrong?? Maybe you do what this priest did and express yourself to the sheep YOU are responsible for shepherding. Perhaps not a smart tactical move but one which you feel morally obligated to express.
Let us all pray the next pope is more orthodox, has a better grasp of Catholic theology, and ALSO has thicker skin. What would Jesus do? Probably NOT excommunicate a priest who is making his distress at the direction of the church publicly known.
Good points, and He knew Judas was an actual betrayer, not just a talker and yet he was allowed at the last Supper, right?
Judas was allowed at the Last Supper, and given Holy Communion, because his sin was not manifest. Only Jesus knew.
Even present canon law requires that a person in mortal sin be given Holy Communion even if the priest is aware of it – if the sin is not manifest or public. Canon law requires that the person be denied if it is manifest. You’ll notice Jesus didn’t invite the Sanhedrin to the Last Supper.
No priest promises blind obedience to his superior. Even religious, who take actual vows of obedience, do not agree to blind obedience. All obedience to a superior is ordered toward obedience to Christ, and where the superior orders things contrary to Christ, you obey Christ. That doesn’t mean your superior is automatically deposed or must have been invalidly elected, or that you are henceforth relieved of obedience.
The Pope going off the rails doesn’t mean he isn’t Pope. The office would be useless if we had to be forever ascertaining whether a Pope was validly elected based on whether his behavior was atrocious, or whether his non-infallible statements were clear, cogent, and orthodox.
I don’t know of any way in which this priest was being ordered to do something contrary to his conscience, unless you count acknowledging Francis as Pope while offering Mass. He wasn’t excommunicated for giving an explainer on FS that rejected it, or for refusing to bless a same-sex couple.
I have a lot of sympathy for this priest being scandalized by the Pope and the cardinals, but he was wrong, schismatic, and scandalous. And now no Pope or bishop, no matter how gentle and generous, can lift his excommunication without his repentance.
Dear Amanda, well-argued but divorced from two realities.
First, that many lower order clerics live in terror of hierarchs who can abolish their Church positions & reduce them to impoverished, homeless, unskilled has-beens. Only very courageous persons (such as Saint Mary of the Cross MacKillop) can exercise the freedom to dissent that you say is theirs.
Second: Fr Ramon Guidetti was making public his refusal to be an ACCOMPLICE of the grievous offences of PF & entourage against Christ Jesus, His Blessed Mother Mary, and numerous faithful saints & martyrs (i.e. THE CHURCH sensu strictum). His ‘excommunication’ is unarguably null & voided by those circumstances (even on your own criteria).
Incidentally, when excommunicated & thrown out on the street by the Catholic hierarchy, Saint Mary Mackillop and her wonderful Catholic nuns were cared for by Jewish and by Presbyterian Australians.
Plenty for us Catholics to think about, if we truly face the injustices of these situations.
Always striving to hear & follow Jesus Christ; love & blessings from marty
They do indeed promise total obedience. I will assume the proper response at their ordination to the question of their obedience is “YES”.Yes is not a conditional response. Men being ordained do not respond that they will obey, “In so far as conscience allows me”. They say yes. Period.
If you follow the Catholic press at all you must be aware that Francis has given any number of statements which have been of major concern to the Catholic public. It is exactly because he has wandered far from Catholic orthodoxy that many catholics view the pope with concern.. The recent firing of conservative catholic clerics and his recent paper giving an “OK” to blessing those in gay relationships are but two among MANY reasons why this Pope has lost credibility.
Well put, dear ‘LJ”.
At ordination, I heard 2 new priests questioned by our Archbishop: “Will you respect & obey me and my successors?” I couldn’t hear their replies. Was praying that they would say: “I will respect & obey you, dear Archbishop, in accord with the instructions of our King Jesus Christ in The New Testament and in accord with the wisdom of our Catholic Saints & Elders in The Catechism of the Catholic Church.”
Commenters are losing focus. Those who question this Pope’s legitimacy do not do so based on their view of his performance. I believe it harkens back to the resignation of Pope Benedict–the messiness and lack of clarity behind it. The fact that the papal approach and Vatican leadership took a major left turn with Pope Francis feeds the fuel for those who question whether Pope Benedict was pushed out.
Mom of 3,
I think there’s been a lot of unanswered questions ever since Pope Benedict resigned and conspiracy theories often have a grain of truth behind them. It’s the conflation of that which becomes a problem and a tool to cause division.
The Body of Christ needs to stick together and we should be faithful and vigilant, watching for any attempt to break us apart.
Mr. Ramon Guidetti is correct, so far as his words are concerned. But he is an advocate of Benevacantism. I know that Benevacantism is incorrect.
What is most important to any Catholic is making sure that he is following the pope, and not an antipope. It is a fact that at one point there were three people claiming to be the pope.