Vatican City, Jun 21, 2018 / 04:29 pm (CNA).- In a June 21 conversation with journalists on the way back from a trip to Geneva, Pope Francis touched on an array of topics, including ecumenism, intercommunion, peace and just war, and refugees.
Please read below for CNA’s full transcript of the Pope’s inflight press conference:
Greg Burke:
Thank you, Your Holiness… we wait a second, here we go… perfect! Thank you in the meantime. To journey, to pray, to work together… we have walked, we have prayed also, at various times, and now we touch on work a little, even to eat after, so that it is seen that to journey together brings fruit.
Today the welcoming- we have seen, after many speeches that it is the mutual respect and it is something more, it is also friendship. However, there is still so much work to do and so many challenges and this interests us normally, the challenges… so, to you journalists… but, if you want to say something first [Holy Father]?
Pope Francis:
Thank you for your work, the day was a little heavy, at least for me… but I am content, I am content [ed. note: or ‘happy’] because the various things that we have done — that is, the prayers to begin, then the speech during lunch it was the most beautiful, then the academic meeting, and then the Mass, they are things that have made me happy… The tiring but beautiful things! Thank you so much! Now I am available to you.
Greg Burke:
Good. We begin with the Swiss. (Arnaud Bedat of L’Illustre magazine)
Bedat:
Holy Father, you have been in Geneva, but also in Switzerland. What are the images and what are the strong, important moments that had an impact on you during this day?
Pope Francis:
Repeat for me.
Bedat:
(repeated)
Pope Francis:
I believe that it is a common word: encounter. It was a day of varied encounters. The right word of the day is ‘encounter,’ and when a person encounters another and feels appreciation for the meeting, this always touches the heart, no? They were positive meetings, good even, beginning with the dialogue with the president at the beginning; it was not a speech of courtesy, as usual… [it was] a deep speech on the profound world debates and [spoken by him] with an intelligence… that I remain astonished, beginning from that.
Then the meetings that you all saw, and that which you did not see is the meeting at lunch, that was very profound [or deep] in the way it touched on many debates, mabe the debate we spent the most time on is “the youth.” Because even all of the churches are concerned, in the good sense, for the youth and the pre-synod that occurred in Rome from March 19 and then attracted enough attention, because there were youth of all [different] beliefs, even agnostics and of all the countries. Think, 315 youth there and 15,000 connected [ed note: via Facebook] that they entered and exited and this perhaps awakened a special interest.
But the word that came to me maybe the whole trip is that it was a voyage of ‘encounter.’ Maybe… I don’t know… an experience of encounter… no rudeness, nothing entirely formal. A human encounter. And this… between Protestants, Catholics and all [people] it says a lot, eh!
Greg Burke:
Thanks, Holiness. Now the German group. Roland Juchem of the German Catholic CIC Agency is here.
Roland Juchem:
Thanks, Holy Father. You speak often of concrete steps toward ecumenism. Today, for example, you again referred to that, saying “Let’s see what is possible to do concretely rather than getting discouraged for what isn’t.”
The German bishops recently have decided to take a step and so we ask ourselves why Archbishop Ladaria wrote a letter that seems like an “emergency brake.” After the meeting May 3, it was affirmed that the German bishops would have had to find a possibly unanimous solution. What will be the next steps? Will an intervention from the Vatican be necessary to clarify or will the German bishops have to find an agreement?
Pope Francis:
Well. This is not a novelty because in the Code of Canon Law, what the German bishops were talking about is foreseen: communion in special cases. And, they were looking at the problem of mixed marriages, no? If it is possible or it isn’t possible. And the Code says that the bishop of the particular Church – this word is important, “particular,” if it is of a diocese – must read that. It’s in his hands. This is in the Code. The German bishops, because they had seen that it wasn’t clear… also some priests did things who weren’t in agreement with the bishop, have wished to study this theme and have made this study that I don’t want to exaggerate, but it was a study of more than a year, and more… it’s more than a year… well done… and the study was restrictive.
What the bishops wanted is to say clearly what is in the Code. And, I read it and said: this is a restrictive document, no? It wasn’t open to everyone. It’s a well thought-out thing, with ecclesial spirit. And they wished to do it for the local Church, not the particular. The thing slid along up until there for the German [bishops’] conference. And there, there is a problem, because the Code does not foresee that. It foresees the bishop of the diocese, but not the conference, because a thing approved by an episcopal conference immediately becomes universal.
And this was the difficulty of the discussion: not so much the content, but this. And they sent the document. Then, there were two or three meetings of dialogue or of clarification and Archbishop Ladaria sent that letter, but with my permission. He didn’t do it alone! I told him: ‘Yes, it’s better to make a step ahead and say that the document isn’t yet mature and that the thing needed to be studied more.’ Then, there was another meeting and at the end they will study the thing.
I think that this will be an orientative document so that each of the diocesan bishops can manage what canon law already permits.
It wasn’t a brake … it is reading the thing so that it goes along the right path. When I made a visit to the Lutheran Church of Rome, a question of the kind was posed, and I replied according to the spirit of the Code of Canon Law. It is the spirit that they are seeking now. Maybe it wasn’t the right information in the right moment, a little bit of confusion, but this is the thing: the particular Church, the Code permits it, the local Church [episcopal conference] cannot because it would be universal.
(journalist inaudible)
But the conference can study and give orientative opinions to help the bishops to manage the particular cases. Thanks.
Greg Burke:
Now from the Spanish group there is Eva Fernandez of COPE agency and Spanish radio
Pope Francis:
They are good, these [journalists] of COPE
Eva Fernandez:
Thank you, Holy Father! We have seen that even the secretary general of the Ecumenical Council of Churches spoke of help to refugees. Just recently we have seen the incident of the Aquarius ship, also the separation of families in the United States. Do you think that some leaders instrumentalize/use the tragedy of refugees. Do they use them…?
Pope Francis:
I have spoken a lot on refugees, the criteria are those that I have said: to welcome, to accompany, to place, to integrate. This is the criteria for all refugees. Then I have said that every country should do this with the virtue of the rule of prudence, because a country should welcome as many refugees as it can and as many as it can integrate, educate, assimilate, give work to. This I would say is the straightforward/easy, serene plan for refugees. Here we are living [with] a wave of refugees that flee from wars and from hunger. The war and hunger of many countries in Africa, wars and persecution in the Middle East. Italy and Greece were very generous in welcoming [refugees], and for the Middle East, Turkey [was also], in respect to Syria, it has received many… Lebanon many… Lebanon has as many Syrians as Lebanese… and then Jordan… other countries, also Spain has received [them? some?].
There is a problem of trafficking migrants, and also there is the problem when in some cases they return, because they should return if this — I do not know/understand well the terms in agreement — if they are in the Libyan water, they should return… and there, I have seen the photographs of the detention centers controlled by the traffickers. Traffickers immediately separate the women from the men… women and babies go… God knows where! This is what the traffickers do! There is even a case that I know of where the traffickers were close to a ship that had accepted barges and… [they were saying] “give us the women and the babies and take the males.”
These traffickers and the detention centers of the traffickers eh, that have returned, they are terrible… terrible! In the detention camps of the Second World War they saw these things! And also the mutilizations in the torture of [forced?] labor and then they threw them to be in the comunes of the men. For this the leaders are concerned that they [the people] do not return and fall into the hands of these people [the traffickers]. It is a world-wide concern! I know that the leaders speak on this and they want to find an agreement, even to modify the Dublin agreement and all of this.
In Spain you have had the case of this ship that is docked in Valencia, but all of this is a mess… the problem of the wars is difficult to resolve. The problem of the persecution also of Christians in the Middle East, also in Nigeria… but the problem of hunger they can resolve, and many European leaders are thinking of an emergency plan to invest in these countries, to invest intelligently, to give work and education in these two things in the countries from which those people come… because — [I’ll say] one thing, not to offend, but it is the truth — in the collective subconscious, is a bad motto: Africa is exploited. And Africa is to be preyed on… this is in the subconscious… ‘eh, they are Africans.’ Always ‘land of slaves.’
And this should change with this plan of investment, and to increase education, because the African people have many cultural riches, many, and they have a great intelligence. The children are very intelligent and they, with a good education, can go beyond… this will be the road halfway to the goal, but in the moment leaders should make an agreement between themselves to go forward with these emergency fixes… this here in Europe! We go in America: in America there is a great migration problem.
(journalist inaudible)
In Latin America too there is an internal migration problem… in my homeland there is a migration problem from North to South and even these people leave the countryside because there is no work and the go to the big cities and where there are these megacities [or huge cities], the slums and all these things, but it is also an external migration to other countries that have work… and speaking concretely of the United States, I back that which the bishops of the country say. I side with them. Thank you.
Greg Burke:
Thanks, Holiness. Now is the English group: Deborah Castellano Lubov of the Zenit Agency.
Deborah Castellano Lubov (Zenit):
Thanks, Holiness! Holiness, in your address today to the ecumenical encounter you made reference to the enormous strength of the Gospel. We know some of the Churches, now the World Council of Churches, the so-called “pacifist Churches” who believe that a Christian cannot use violence. We remember that two years ago in the Vatican there was as conference organized. Do you think that it would be the case for the Catholic Church to unite to these so-called “Churches of peace” and set aside the doctrine of just war? Thanks.
Pope Francis:
A clarification, why do you say that there are “pacifist Churches?”
Deborah Castellano Lubov:
They are considered as pacifist because they have this way of reasoning that if a person (intuits) a violence, at that point they can no longer be considered Christians.
Pope Francis:
Thanks. I understand. Because you put your finger right in the wound, eh? I think that… today at lunch a pastor said that maybe the first human right is the right to hope and I liked that. And this has to do a bit with this and we spoke about the crisis of human rights today. I think that I have to begin from this to arrive to your question. The crisis of human rights is clearly seen. They speak a bit about human rights but so many groups or some countries take a distance, and “yes, human rights,” but there isn’t the strength, the enthusiasm, the conviction. I don’t say 70 years ago but 20 years ago. And this is grave because we have to see the causes, but what are the causes for which we have arrived to this that today human rights are relative. Also the right to peace is relative. It is a crisis of human rights. This I think that we must think it through to the end, or with certainty.
Then, Churches of peace. I think that all the Churches that have this spirit of peace must reunite and work together as we said in the speeches today, myself and the other people that spoke. And at lunch, unity for peace was spoken of. Peace is an exigency because there is risk of a war that we … some have said this: this third world war, if it is done, we know with which arms it will be done… but if there were a fourth, it would be done with sticks because humanity will be destroyed. The commitment for peace is serious, but when you think of the money that is spent on weapons… for this, the religions of peace… is the mandate of God. Peace, fraternity, human unity. All of the conflicts, don’t resolve them like Cain, resolve them with negotiations, with dialogue, with mediations… for example, we’re in a crisis of mediations. The mediation as a juridical figure (very rich) today is in pure crisis. Hope is in crisis, crisis of human rights, crisis of mediations, crisis of peace.
But then if you say that there are religions of peace, I ask myself, where are the religions of war? It’s tough to understand this. It’s tough. But, some groups, I would say in almost all of the small religious groups, I will say a bit simply fundamentalists, seek wars… Also we Catholics have some. They always seek destruction, no? And this is very important to have our eyes on it. I don’t know if I replied. Thanks.
They say that the population is asking for lunch, eh, dinner, that there is just enough time to arrive with a full stomach. It’s just to tell you… a word that I want to say clearly that today was an ecumenical day, really ecumenical! And at lunch we said a beautiful word, a beautiful thing, that I leave with you so that you think on it and reflect, you make a nice consideration of this. In the ecumenical movement we have to take from the dictionary a word: “proselytism.” Clear? You cannot have ecumenism with proselytism. You have to choose. Either you have an ecumenical spirit or you are a proselytizer.
Thanks! I would continue speaking because I like it… but now let’s make the Substitute [of the Secretariat of State] come because it is the last trip he’ll make with us, because now he’s going to change color, but not for embarrassment! We want to say goodbye to him. It’s a Sardinian cake to celebrate!
Cardinal-elect Angelo Becciu (Sardinian-born Substitute of the Holy See Secretariat of State):
Thanks! It is a double surprise of calling me and thanking me in front of you! And then there’s a Sardinian cake. Well, then, we’ll try it with pleasure! I truly thank the Holy Father for this occasion, but for everything, because he has allowed me this magnificent experience of traveling so much with him. At the beginning, he scared me saying, ‘No, I’ve made few trips.’ Do you remember? And then after one, he added another and then another and we said to ourselves, ‘good thing he said there would be few and they’ve been many.’ A magnificent experience of seeing the Holy Father spread the Word of God courageously. My service has been only this: to help him in this. Alright? Thanks to all of you and to those who have helped us! Thanks.
Pope Francis:
Buon appetito, have a good dinner and thanks so much! And pray for me, please. Thanks.
[…]
Another whack job with a token catholic look but underneath the sulphuric emissions are all too real! Lord, come back soon!
This woman is a troublemaker, as is Francis. Whenever people use the word “extreme” to describe ideas other than their own, I conclude that they’re into demonizing those with whom they disagree. I pray for the Pope’s successor that he will be a faithful Catholic.
The Pontiff Francis believes that “his-reform,” (which is “the-evil-spirit-of-vadigun-too”) is halfway to its goal, which is, as the woman “Ms-Caram-of-Argentina” represents, the “new-pagan-church-of-sacramental-sodomy.”
These above understand their duty to protect and defend the serial-sex-abusers of their cult, like “Rev.” Rupnik. He must remain free, to send a message to the “rigid, childish, backwardist” pewsitters, who the ruler of their cult is, and that The Beast who rules the world, is likewise their Occult Lord and Mistress.
calling myself an evangelical catholic I have to concur with many of your views. In Ireland which has lost most of its catholic ethos some of us who are sinners still recognise our sins but we certainly do not condone sin. And that is what homosexaulity is. A disbelief in Hell is another popular perception at present. It is a dangerous one and of course is aimed at the young who remain so vulnerable because of the society they have been brought into.
Utterly unsurprising. The Pope has surrounded himself with shallow revolutionaries and heretics for many decades. He is comfortable among them because he is one of them. We become like the people we choose as friends. Pray for all of them, and those who parrot their lies.
Amen!
Poor judgment by Pope Francis in his guest selections, at the very least! He’s not protecting Catholic teaching.
Yes, yes, yes.
Has he ever? He is as bad as the rest of them and probably way worse
Arguing for gay marriage, denying the existence of hell, defending abortion, vilifying the moral code laid down in the Bible — and Bergoglio meets with her? Encourages her?
Never mind hell. Will the Catholic Church exist once Bergoglio’s diabolical papacy is finished?
Our Lord said the Gates of Hell will not prevail for a reason, and He did not say how close they might come. Pope Paul saw the smoke. We are seeing the flames.
And he enables Rupnik while booting Strickland and Burke.
Appalling.
Here’s a story idea for CWR:
Bergoglio is the worst pope in how many hundreds of years?
Was there ever a Borgia as bad as this?
How about Stephen VI? John XII? Boniface VIII?
I would love to see how our own Bergoglio stacks up with some of the worst billing in Church history.
Worst popes. Not worst “billing.”
(Sigh.)
. the listing of the name of a performer, act, or the like, on a marquee, poster, handbill, etc., esp. in regard to prominence: got top billing.
(I think he meant the prominence relationship/top tier as far as billing, perhaps)
It appears the cult of faux katholics is not to be undone…
When Pope Francis welcomes and talks to clergy who has opposing Catholic views than the Church, shows us that he is tolerant, it doesn’t mean that he agrees with their views and/or life styles. Wouldn’t Jesus do the same? However, Jesus would probably correct them gently and would tell them to sin no more.
I also wonder what Pope Francis reaction would be with very Orthodox and/or traditional Catholics. I assume that he would be kind too. Isn’t this what Jesus would want from the Pope, and/or one of us?
Therefore, let’s stop speculating what the Pope’s intentions are when he welcomes clergy who disagree with Catholic doctrine. However, that’s not easy to do, and I think the Vatican should explain what the objective of these meeting between the Pope and controversial Catholic clergy.
The Vatican needs to be more transparent in this area and many others!
That’s exactly the problem – Francis has marginalized orthodox and traditional Catholics, used all sorts of pejorative names to describe them, dismissed them from their positions and refuses to meet with them. That’s how fair and open minded this pope is and why some of us have chosen to ignore every utterance of his.
When has he had anything but praise for the actual heterodoxy of the heretics and insults for loyal Catholics?
Dominican Sister Lucía Caram espouses heresy through her Spanish media outlet and Pope Francis encourages her to continue. Not the garden variety topics like Fiducia Suplicans. Rather the high toxic variety like freedom to commit abortion [a freedom she says God cannot object to because of the very gift of freedom], Catholic Church homosexual marriage, non existence of hell.
When the Holy Father visited Athens a Greek Orthodox priest famously shouted, Papa! Eísai Hairetikós. Pope! You are a heretic. We know that canonically he’s not, because the formal canonical conviction requires adamancy and consistency. Francis knows that and avoids it. However, what Gk Orthodox Fr Ionis shouted is what much of the world believes. If not the heretical condemnation, at least the predilection of beliefs. The planet has become largely heterodox insofar as Christ’s revelation and Catholic moral doctrine.
Diabolic in its etymological Gk form means to disrupt, to break apart. If there is a clear, unambiguous policy identified in this pontificate it’s to dismember, to break apart the unity that existed and that distinguished Catholic Christianity through the centuries.
“We know that canonically he’s not, because the formal canonical conviction requires adamancy and consistency. Francis knows that and avoids it.”
In the sport of wrestling, the action is considered in bounds so long as any part of either wrestler’s body remains with the circle that defines the boundary. Many wrestlers have scored points by having only the tops of their shoes inside that area. Francis is constantly drifting out to the perimeter, ever so careful to leave one toe in, as he continually shoots ankle picks on matters than he wishes to pin.
Perhaps it’s better to remain completely in bounds when the referee is the Almighty and might recognize a transparent attempt to stall or flee the mat.
A really good, humorous analogy. Wonder that he knows he can fool a lot of us but not God, then what is his game? The presumptive answer isn’t pleasant. A reason why I offer my prayer with deep intent at the, Recordare, Domine, Ecclesiae tuae toto orbe diffusae, ut eam in caritate perficias, una com Papa nostro Francis.
That’s una ‘cum’ Papa nostro Francis. Cum, meaning with, referring to unity, which is where the disruption is. The literal dismembering of the Body of Christ.
Those who criticize the Pope and sister need to get their Bibles out and read between the lines. Jesus came for all of us not just for those christians who are perfect.
“Those who criticize the Pope and sister need to get their Bibles out and read between the lines.”
Deep. But what about those who criticize those who criticize the Pope and sister?
You too may choose to read. Rev. 21:1-8. Then ask the Holy Spirit’s help to figure out where you may be found in the book.
So it’s a mere “imperfection” for a nun or an American President to promote abortion and for a Pope to praise them for such devotion to such a world view? And there it is an objective evil to criticize cold-blooded moral indifference to this greatest crime in human history?
He did not come for the righteous is how I understand it.
Obviously you’re the one who did not get your Bible out. And if you did you probably did not read it.
Go on. Start reading.
Just when you might think that anything could not get worse with this papacy—another new mess.
Sister Caram has the right to preach a gospel. It’s just not, undeniably, the Gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ. It is a gospel with no hell, ergo no real need for repentance and conversion. I’m OK, you’re OK.
She has a right to advocate for her version of a church. It is just not, undeniably, the Church of our Lord Jesus Christ. It is rather a church that surrenders to the secular culture on abortion, pornography and just about everything else. A church destined for irrelevance because if a church does identify with the secular culture, who then needs it?
We read, for example: “In 2014, she told La Opinión de Málaga online news that ‘those who freely make the decision [to abort] have to be the people [involved]. The Church cannot meddle in there. Not even God, who made us free for a reason’.”
Consider the abruptness, totality and irreversibly of being (ex)terminated even before we see the light of day. Sometimes with a scissors through the skull in a late-term abortion. Small wonder that Pope St. John Paul II identified abortion as an “unspeakable crime.”
But, hey, in bizarro-world Sister What’sername ingests face time with the papacy she despises.
We notice that in another posting today, one of the issues for the next Synod and for the earlier working groups is “the mission in the digital age.” https://www.catholicworldreport.com/2024/03/14/pope-francis-study-groups-to-examine-10-synod-on-synodality-themes-through-june-2025/
Fraud-alert! These two have chosen nomenclature to connote a St. Pope Francis and a St. Sr. Lucia! Instead of fraudsters, let us think on our dear Lord Jesus and his good true saints who also suffered fraudsters. These two shall pass as shall we. Some will die twice but others only once. Good Christian soldiers, stand guard and stay strong through the blood of Christ.
Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and the sea was no more. And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, “Behold, the dwelling place of God is with man. He will dwell with them, and they will be his people, and God himself will be with them as their God. He will wipe away every tear from their eyes, and death shall be no more, neither shall there be mourning, nor crying, nor pain anymore, for the former things have passed away.”
And the who was seated on the throne said, “Behold, I am making all things new.” Also he said, “Write this down, for these words are trustworthy and true.” And he said to me, “It is done! I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end. To the thirsty I will give from the spring of the water of life without payment. The one who conquers will have this heritage, and I will be his God and he will be my son. But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the detestable, as for murderers, the sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death.
Rev. 21:1-8.
You folks would probably consider me on the lunatic fringe of Catholicism, but even I think Religion Digital is over the line. As a Franciscan we try to live – Gospel to Life, Life to Gospel. Not easy for some Catholics to accept.
Peace my friends
Next time, just tell us you think whatever you embrace makes you better than the rest of us.
Have you ever found yourself thanking the Almighty that you aren’t like the rest of the rabble?
“You folks would probably consider me on the lunatic fringe of Catholicism…”. Cease wondering. Yes, I do. Not even on the fringe. More, I have metaphysical certitude that the OSF has little to do any more with St. Francis of Assisi.
“If any are found who…are not Catholics, let all the brothers, wherever they may have found such a one, be bound through obedience to bring him before the custodian of that place nearest to where they found him. And the custodian is strictly bound by obedience to keep him securely day and night as a prisoner, so that he cannot be taken from his hands until he can personally deliver him into the hands of his minister. And the minister is bound by obedience to send him with such brothers who shall guard him as a prisoner until they deliver him to the Lord of Ostia, who is the Master, the Protector and the Corrector of this fraternity.”
The Testament of St. Francis
Ah, how Catholic media so quickly adopted woke-speak as put forth in the woke bible “style book”….this sister and her pals are only “controversial”, not heretical.
Anything inside the Church today which flaunts ancient teaching and scripture is only “controversial” and not heretical.
And then folk wonder why Catholic media seems to be so ineffective in helping staunch the tidal wave of the “controversial” swamping the Church, and same with pronouncements by hierarchy.
It really is time for the villagers to gather and remove the threat of the Jesuit vampires.
“Continue fighting for this living Church…”🤣 Brilliant! Reads like St. Basil the Great! More like drivel from the formation manual of the Berkeley Jesuits. 🤦🏼♂️
Not that it’s wrong in itself for the Pope to meet with simpatico atheists…(Does this pontificate believe that anything is objectively wrong?)
Yes, plastic straws and backwardist rigidity (i.e., virtually anything that smacks of orthodox Catholicism).
After promising long ago never to go there again, I made myself google “Berkeley Jesuits.” The front page of the Jesuit School of Theology is actually worse than the rubbage of this pontificate. I had to put a mask on to read it! 😷
Living Theology. [I’m alive!]
Transforming Our World. [I’m a transformer!]
The most dynamic and rigorous learning occurs at the intersection of scholarship and culture. [I’m intersecting!]
Health Advisory Alert: Find Covid-19 announcements and resources from JST here. [I’m distancing!]
Find Your Purpose [I’m on purpose!]
Dear Fool!
You’ve had this disordered order and its pathetic prelate pegged from the beginning.
Now you reveal that there is actually a googlable page for ‘Berkeley Jesuits.’
I would never have believed it. I mean, talk about redundancy!